This is a fairly new timer....has not been driven a whole lot. Car started running sluggish so I've been checking all the ignition parts to make sure they are working. Took off timer and saw that it looked like this...
There are not any "grooves", but it definately has wear lines...is this normal?
Also, it looks like it's blacker at the transition between the copper and the plastic housing, which looks like my old timer when I got the car.
Can any experienced new day users tell me what this looks like is happening?
Looks like normal wear to me, don't think that's your problem. KB
One rumor is the spring is too strong and if you cut off a coil or two the timer will work fine.
You would have to include a photo of the other side for a more definite answer, as the timer was made by several different firms.
Have been told that the New Day timers with an "S" on them are of dubious quality.
I have over 5000 miles on one of the s marked timers, no problem, all in the brush. KB
I see a brush that needs dressing and may be to hard.
I've seen several recommendations to change the brush from copper to carbon to minimize the wear.
You can make a carbon brush out of some old generator brush you may have lying around.
As Jack says, that brush clearly needs dressing. Also, can you feel a ridge at the arrows shown below? The cap may need dressing too. If there's a ridge, as indicated by deep marks, the brush is probably jumping at higher speeds.
Thanks guys! What is involved in "dressing" a brush. I did look at it (didn't remove it) and the spring is good in it...may be too much as you say!
I've included a pic of the other side as requested...don't see an "S"
After giving the image a little more thought, the rotor is turning clockwise so a ridge at the arrows wouldn't really hurt. What bothers me are the deep looking marks on what would be the trailing edge of the contacts.
The brush still needs dressed.
Dressing the brush means sanding the contact face over a flat surface (extra fine sandpaper over glass works) and then chamfering the contact edges. If the brush contact face shows to be flat already, then the contacts in the cap are not and they need dressed by turning on a lathe.
Id dress the cap by hand with a wood mandrel and a piece of 280-320 sandpaper glued to it. Cut a round piece of plywood and screw a handle on it. Spray glue the paper onto the face. Don't use emery cloth... its metallic and will "track". ws
thanks...I'll dress both and report back. Appreciate the help!
It says you're not supposed to lubricate the New Day Timer, but each week, I clean the contacts on my New Day and apply a fresh fine film of Vaseline to the contacts which helps to minimize wear to the brush and to the contacts and plastic in between. Jim Patrick
My car started to play up when fitted with a new New Day timer (twice) looked the same as those pictured above. The departure side of the contact was burnt and carbon tracking developed in the fine cracks also seen above. Got rid of the New Days and went with an Anco. Car now goes as she used to and I have not needed to worry about her failing on a run. The type I had were marked with the dredded "S".
This may help: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/343528.html.
Those black New Day timers wear out in a couple hundred miles. I think the plastic material is too soft.
If you can find a older brown New Day then you have an excellent timer.
The best timers on the market today are the ones made by Tony Wiltshire. It works perfectly on battery and, more importantly, on "MAG".
Click here for more information:
I keep trying to tell you guys that I've got over 5000 miles on the black repop new day. The problem is not in the case or the material the brush is made from, it's how the brush is put together. the spring is to strong for one thing, the other problem is the brush holder does not hold the brush straight. You have to correct those problems or use an original new day brush. KB
Check your cam end play
Keith....have you done any mods like trimming the spring to be shorter or replacing with another spring?
How did you correct the brush holding angle?
Ken, the brush moves counter-clockwise as it is on the camshaft and it is driven by the crankshaft which turns clockwise.
The picture has the timer flipped the opposite from the actual running position.
So two wrongs made a right and the possible damage area should not cause the brush to jump.
Rowland, yes I am currently running the repop spring which I weakened and I used a pair of dykes to re crimp the housing, it is not as well made as the original but can be tweaked to work. I know that it is aggravating to have to tweak a new part, but the complaints made the parts cease to be made. I applaud any one who takes the time and effort to repop any part, sometimes it would be better to talk to the maker about a problem than bash it on the forum, I have seen that a good bit.KB
Right Willie. Perhaps you didn't see my post.
Related question...maybe this should be another post...
I've had two different methods of setting timing, both from very proficient T-owners...
1. Do the 15 degrees after TDC method, finding TDC with thumb/visually and then setting timer to a position just before spark on #1 plug.
2. Measure 2 1/2 inches from rod end to middle of bolt head that holds timer
What is the consensus, as the measurements give me very different results. Sorry if this opens a can of worms
The measurement only works with original Ford roller timers. It doesn't work with New Day Timers or Anco Timers or any other timer.
You must use piston position to be sure when the spark occurs, and to set it properly.
The 15 degree method works EVERY time. That is what you are trying to achieve. The 2-1/2" method is just an expedient method of getting the 15 degrees. Unfortunately, it only works with some timers. If you have a Ford roller timer, then the 2-1/2" method will work, but if it is not a Ford timer, then it may not. Just depends on how the thing was designed.
The inch method is specific to the type of timer. Various timer types require a different measurement so setting all types to 2 1/2" won't work very well. Better to use the ATDC method.
Ditto what Hal said. He types faster.
LOL I typed faster than either of you and said the same thing.
Wow....thanks for the answers!! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't causing my issues with incorrect timing. It definately runs better using piston position to set it.
I had a coil that was shorted internally to put the spark voltage on the ground terminal.
The spark current ran back down the ground wire to the timer and made a big deep hole like the shallow ones seen on this timer.
Thanks James....how was it shorted/where exactly? I'm a car guy but new to T's....guessing opening the coil box, but is there a way to find a short that's not visual?
Have a guy in town with an original coil tester...taking it by his house this weekend for a clean test of all the coils
Wow! Don't know how I missed your post Royce. You must have a go-fast high speed internet connection.
This is EXACTLY how my timers wore in the 70's. You all say to NOT use the Vasoline. But then I ask you where does all of the copper dust from wear go inside the timer? That was what made my car miss and have all kinds of trouble running down the highway. Of course I mainly used my cars for a fun drive once in a while or a few parades. Jess Bonar cleaned it out with a rag and told me to use Vasoline so that is what I did. Car ran fine and every 6 months or so I took it apart and cleaned and re-Vasolined it again.
Just a note for Rowland.
Thank you Joseph.....getting coils tested tomorrow and go from there
That looks like you are sparking right at the edge of the segment. If you are running the car on battery, it will make contact right at the beginning of the segment, but if you are running on magneto, it will contact when the magnet passes the pole and the current builds up to 1.3 amps. That will usually be after the brush contacts the copper. So the timer works better and will last longer on magneto than on battery.
I typically start it on battery and switch to Magneto after it's running.