What is this?
More Pictures http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/3963378136.html
Copied from the Ad:
A car that is more than 100 years old. Price is firm. If you'd like to negotiate I'll start at $8,500. Rare 1910 Model T Coupe with title. This was the second model year for the Model T, the first being 1909. Only about 280 coupes were made in 2010, and then the coupe was discontinued through most of the teens because Henry Ford found them too expensive to build. And this coupe has a very rare all aluminum body. It is the kind of body that the WW1 aircraft companies were building for fighter planes.
The engine turns over, and should start and run, but not currently able to demonstrate that. Consider this a "barn find". It is actually in a barn, and more than a bit dusty. Leather interior is in good condition. Tires are not good, but rims and wooden spokes are. The body is pretty exceptional. Frame is excellent. Top is poor. As you might expect, I had intentions to rebuild this car, and instead it has turned into just a very cool curiosity piece for my visitors. Though when talking vintage cars with others, I do tend to drop that I own a 1910 Ford. Soon I'll have to say that I used to own a 1910 Ford, and you will have dibs on it.
I have no connection to this Craigslist Ad. I thought I should say that.
I wonder if the title says 1910? Aftermarket body with much later fenders?
Nothing I see leads me to the conclusion that this is a 1910. Obviously an aftermarket or modified body, top & windshield. Taking all the visible parts and assuming they all belong together I think this is a 1920. I base this on the fenders, Hayes demountable wheels and the wheel carrier, cast running board supports, steering column (later gas & spark levers) and wooden rim/cast steel spider steering wheel, and oval fuel tank.
On the other hand it could be another year with many of the parts changed. Wish there were good photos of the front and rear end and both sides of the engine.
Also, I forgot to mention the later style electric headlights (appear also to have nickel or brass rims)and the electric tail light on the tire carrier. The headlights are later single post and therefore not earlier accessory ones that would fit on a gas light fork. And the wishbone appears to be the later one that goes under the steering linkage and bolts under the axle. 1920 OR if the fuel tank was changed from round to oval the chassis could be 1919.
It looks like, when blown up to 400% photo, it has a rivet clamshell diff housing, the rest of the car might just be improvements and upgrades over the years.
The only similarity to a 1910 T that i can see is that it's got a wheel at each corner .
Or as we would say in AUSTRALIA --''HE's DREAMIN''
Still an old period speedster / customized Ford of some interest to restore - should cost less than $8,500 though, IMHO(in my humble opinion)
I wonder if it's an aftermarket body for Ford or if the body was robbed from another brand of car? The Ford radiator cap suggests it's a Ford brass radiator underneath - if it fits the rounded shape of the shroud..? That would point towards an aftermarket body.
Unless I missed something it is certainly rare
But I wonder where all the other parts are!
It would be better to call it a rolling chassis that needs a body.
And I wonder about the leather interior that is in "good condition".
Partial restoration with a covering of dust applied to simulate long term storage?
I'll pass even at the $5,500 that is in the listing. You can get a good driver for about that amount.
Going by the pic it seems this 'could be'? a 1910 if it has the correct engine with a 1910 serial no.
If it is, the only remaining 1910 T parts would be the frame and drive train and that's questionable.
It looks to be a aftermarket body with demountable wheels and much later fenders.
To me it it looks to be a 'very negotiable' 4-5000 car. And that would be negotiable after closer inspection.
If it actually had a 1910 open valve engine, it would be worth the asking price.
This reminds me of a time back in the Spring of '89 when my brother and I drove to Macon, MS, to see a 1912 Model T that was advertised in the Memphis Commercial Appeal (no pictures) as in perfect shape; the listed price was $10,000.
Intrigued, we took the day to go look. We met the owner, a nice lady in West Point, drove to a large farm in Macon, and happily agitated, walked into a cavernous barn to find a '17 roadster. I immediately knew that $10,000 wasn't going to happen, but since we'd taken the day and made the trip, we decided to make the best of it and get 'er started.
This took about ninety minutes, and when she did fire, even with clean oil, the smoke quickly drove most of us out of the barn. This roadster did move under it's own power, but obviously needed bands, attention to the carburetor, and a healthy dose of TLC. When switching to magneto, she stopped running, period. After checking all exterior electrical connections and the mag post, we gave up on the mag.
The farmer was a friend of this lady's ex husband; she had received this car as part of the property settlement. The farmer had been kind enough to let the car stay in his barn as a courtesy. I do remember his equipment being up to date and clean; the area around the farm buildings was pristine.
I asked the lady if she were firm on her price of $10,000; "Yes", she said and added, "My friends all have told me to not take less than $10,000 for it."
Bear in mind that this lady was not a car enthusiast, at all, except she did like her BMW.
Outside, away from her, I asked the farmer, "Do you think this lady really wants to sell the car?" "Yes", he told me. "I'd also like her to sell it so I can have the space back."
When the farmer and I walked back up to where my brother and the lady were talking, I asked her, "Has the car been driven any distance, like on a tour, or maybe just a drive up to Tupelo?" "No, she said, "But it drives really well in the Christmas parade." Well, for me that solved the ignition question; someone simply ran it on battery.
"I understand that you're firm on your price of $10,000. The car is a 1917 Model T, not a 1912 Model T", and I showed her some pictures of 1912's. "That's pretty!" she says.
"I'm sorry, but I can't give you $10,000 for this car. It's an excellent car, no question, but the main problem I see with it is that it's primary ignition system isn't working, and we've gone through a check list to see if we could make it work. I believe the reason it ran well in parades is because of this modern battery which will power the car until it (the battery) runs down, yes, but the battery is there as means to make the car easy to start, not for full-time running. See this switch on the coil box?" I went on to explain how a T was originally built to start using the battery and then switch to magneto "Just Like A Lawn Mower" for full-time running. Her eyes were beginning to glaze over.
To cut through the fog, I told her, "So often when an antique car is for sale, the seller's very well-meaning, but less-than-fully-informed friends will suggest a price that is usually more than what the car will actually sell for. Often, this price is in fairly round numbers, usually evenly divisible by $5,000." She was smiling and nodding.
I went on to say, "I can suggest that you talk with your same friends that suggest a hard deck of $10,000, and offer it to any of them for say, $7,500; I'm guessing here, but I believe they will back pedal."
Her face fell slightly. In all innocence, I asked the farmer, "Would you like to buy this car?" Laughing, he said, "Oh, no; not for $10,000, not for $2,500! Look around; I have so many things to maintain here, I do NOT want another!" We all had a good laugh.
The lady's face fell a little more. I didn't exactly feel sorry for her; she was obviously somewhat affluent, but it began to sink in that there was no $10,000 in her car.
She asked me, "What would you pay for the car?" I answered, "It's a great car, very accurate, minimal rust, and with a few days work, it would be a wonderful daily driver. The part that concerns me is the magneto; we can't seem to get it to work and I don't know why. It can be a variety of things, but we've covered the easy ones. From here on, it becomes progressively more time-consuming and expensive; right now, it's a guess as to what amount of time and money will be needed to get the magneto working. Plus, all that blue smoke; most of it should have dissipated since we ran the engine long enough to come up to full temperature, but the smoke tells me that the engine needs to be removed from the car, completely disassembled, machined in appropriate places, and re-assembled with new parts like piston rings, bearings, etc. (I didn't want to get too technical; after all, the glaze in her eyes was not too far off). This process is still done on a regular basis by people who know how, but it does take time and money. I understand that your price of $10,000 is firm; please call me if you decide to lower it."
My brother and I, having had a great day T'ing, headed home. I don't think I ever heard back from the seller. Yes, I'd still do that day again!
I guess it is rare because it is not "well done"!
The body almost looks like a little Grant made in Findlay Ohio.
Probably the only thing that's 1910 on this thing is the frame and the engine...the rest is 1920 and later, even the top bows have wood insert corners like the later cars, the gas tank is oval.
I don't think this guy knows what a 1910 Ford T looks like, much less ever owned one...and he sure doesn't know anything a about how WWI aircraft were built!
"There's one born ....
Dennis Seth, I love your comment! Totally sums it up. :-)
Looked at it Today, interesting after market body
will check with to find out if the title is 1910.
running gear is later. very interesting kit type body and possible very rare, great Speedster body.