Bolt too short: Is the "book" wrong?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Bolt too short: Is the "book" wrong?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 04:48 pm:


The NCMTC fastener list shows the pan arm side bolt as 21/4" long, so that's what I got.


But it's obvious a castle nut won't go on here far enough to get a cotter pin through the hole. Either I'm missing something, or the bolt should be 2
1/2".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 08:21 pm:

All the sources I have consulted say 2 1/4". Could your frame have spread a little and along with it the crankcase arms? If someone can provide a measurement between the inside frame channels you might be able to determine this. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 08:52 pm:

Well, we know the frame rail block is 1 1/2" thick. It should just touch the inside of the frame rail and pan arm. If the pan arm is 1/8" thick and the frame 1/4" (I think less), then that's 1 7/8". That leaves 3/8" for the nut and cotter pin out of a 2 1/4" bolt. That's not enough so the 2 1/4" bolt can't be correct.

The higher math confuses me so someone may want to verify it. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 09:27 pm:

Ken is correct. The frame and the arm have not separated. Both are against the block. The bolt is simply too short.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 09:39 pm:

The 2 1/4" bolt should be good. The frame is 5/32" think, the block should be 1 3/8" and the pan support is 5/32" think. Add it up and you get 1 11/16" and that leaves 9/16" for the nut.

Maybe your block is too thick, just shave it down to 1 3/8". Mine came as 1 3/8" from the supplier.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 10:07 pm:

I was just looking at the block drawing going around. It shows 1 1/2" thick but it wouldn't be the first time a drawing was incorrect.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 10:08 pm:

Yikes! That came out huge.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 - 10:46 pm:

Yes, I see that the drawing does show 1 1/2" thick. Mine seemed to be thinner and some reported NOS blocks to be 1 7/16" thick.

However, even with a 1 1/2" thick block, the 2 1/4" bolt should work. That would make the total thickness of 1 13/16"



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 11:06 am:

The wood block needs to be 1-1/2" thick to keep the crankcase arm from rubbing against the edge of the frame. The frame's edge can rub a notch in the arm, weakening it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 11:29 am:

I'm glad you pointed that out. I'm keeping my blocks 11/2". If I can't get a pin in the bolt, I'll use a longer bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 11:39 am:

It's the same bolt as the steering bracket bolt. Check it against one of those.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 01:29 pm:

Steve - You might try a different style nut. I've always called the type shown in Jim's picture above a Castle Nut. The other style I call a Slotted Nut. The location of cotter pin is much closer to the base on a slotted nut.


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