Is there a difference in the windshield mounts on a '21 touring between a starter and nonstarter car? My '21 (I think it actually is a '22) has all of the evidence of originally being a non starter body. When I try to mount a dash panel, it moves the mounts back just enough the windshield will not seat, as there is interference between the windshield frame, and the raised lip on the edge of the cowl.
The only difference, so far as I am aware, is that the non-starter cars had windshield brackets that had an integral cup-shaped mount for the sidelamps. The regular mounts didn't have this, but I don't think there's any difference in the windshield bracket position per se.
On what I have the mounts for the cowl lamps are a separate bracket that piggybacks on the windshield mount. Based on Henry's cheapness, I cannot imagine there would be two separate parts, but the thickness of the dash panel with the top edge rolled over ( what a 1/16" or 3/32's) behind the mounts makes it impossible to slip the frame into the mounts. With out the dash, I had to leave the mounts loose to slip the windshield frame in, and tighten them afterwards
If your car has the slanted 23-25 posts then it is a late 22, I believe. The accessory side lamp brackets would be an add-on. If the windshield posts are vertical and short then your car would be of the early type. As far as I know (use to know years ago) all of the Fords produced after sometime during 19 ALL had a dash panel (starter or delete).
Joe in Mo.
The posts are pretty close to vertical if they are not vertical. I'm sure the car came to me as a pile of assembled parts. It came to me titled as a 1921. The engine that came with it is a September '21 engine, and it is a starter engine(no starter or generator came with it) . The frame had forged running board brackets. It did have demountable rims, however I never checked the size, it has '27 wheels and rims on it now, and they are different. The body had no dash panel, the switch was mounted on the coil box, and it had kerosene cowl lamps and tail light. It has a round topped windshield. It also came with a steel firewall. I question the body, as the two '21 T touring's in the local club each have 5 panels in their bodies around the back seat, and mine is only 3 panels. To sum it up, it's pretty obvious this is not an original car. It has a '27 drive train in it now. It is a T, that's all I care about
Steel firewall normally means slanted windshield and one man top. Ford would call such a car a '23 model. These cars started to be made in summer of 1922, and were sold as 1923 Fords.
It's common to find Model T's assembled from parts of various years. You have the option of doing whatever you like since it is your car, but I prefer to make a car consist of parts that are all appropriate to one another.
From the encyclopedia:
Generally similar to 1919 except as noted.
A new body design with lower seats of much more comfortable design was announced on October 15, 1920, and is properly called a “1921” model. Rear quarter panel is now one piece instead of the two-piece design used since 1913. Upholstery tack strips were now inside the body panels, extending above them for the tacks. Metal cap on arm rests was now somewhat narrower. Top iron support post now came through the quarter panel instead of the “L” bracket used earlier. Instrument panel standard on all models, starter or not, in 1922. Oval gas tank was standard. The lid over the gas tank was discontinued.
I have a 23 model touring car that was built in november of 22 and it has a wood firewall. This is a very original car.
Right. Steel firewall equals slanted windshield and one man top 1923 or later.
Steel firewall can = replaced fire wall on 17 up cars. I put one on my 21 to support the cowl and windshield assembly on my Huckster.
The low steel firewall didn't come out till sometime in 23 and was used for just a short time before June with 24 models introduction. From the Black Book.
I have a '23 touring with steel firewall and slanted windshield. I obtained a good set of used top bows that came off of a '24 touring, so,.....they should be the correct top bows,....right?
Last wood firewalls were in Feb of 1923. I have one.
Yes, Wood firewall slanted windshield and one man top equals early 1923 models.
I think MANY pre '23 cars and trucks were retrofitted with the steel firewalls, probably due to deterioration of the wood firewalls. I have seen WAY more low steel firewalls than wood ones. JMHO. Dave
Ford lists a replacement 1917 - 22 steel firewall in the 1925 spare parts list which has led folks to incorrect conclusions.
An original steel firewall came only under a car with a slanted windshield. And yes, there were some early '23 models with wood firewall and slanted windshield.
The car has the hardware for a 2 man top. I mentioned the steel firewall because it proves the point, the car is not original. Mark's post from the encyclopedia suggests the body could be a '21, but why would 2 separate '21's in the local T club have 2 piece quarter panels? Time of year they were built, or just different body manufacturers?
Anyway this has strayed a long ways from the original question, "were there different windshield posts?" I looked at it last night, and even if the dash panel were a single thickness of metal, I doubt I could fit the windshield with a dash panel in place.
Maybe a Canadian car? They had different windshields in that time period.
Doug, as far as windshield posts go; they appeared in the 1915 MODEL year and were unchanged until sometime in early 1917 Model year. Yes, they were riveted to the bottom windshield frame on the famous 1917 Rip van Winkle touring. Then they changed styles so that the windshield brackets machine screwed onto the bottom windshield frame with 2 ea. 5/16" machine screws per side. When the car came equipped with electrical components in the 1919 MODEL year these malleable windshield brackets lost their integral cowl lamp attachments until the 1923 MODEL year when the raked-to-the-rear windshield stanchions came out. Your post of 31 July stated, "the mounts for the cowl lamps are a seperate bracket that piggybacks on the windshield mount." Now you also say ,"It has a round top windshield" which leads me to believe its correct for the '21-'22 models. However, my mind's eye tells me your windshield brackets are for a car with electrical components and someone has added the '23-'25 kerosene cowl lamp brackets in lieu of getting the one piece cowl lamp/windshield brackets.