I usually do not point toward eBay auctions, but this Coupe seems to be just about perfect. Am I wrong?
It's sure purrty, no doubt. I think you should buy it, Bernard!
It's a slick one, all right. But it's too shiny for you, isn't it, Bernard? (BTW, it's a '24, not a '23. It's probably titled as a '23, which was common back then for late-calendar-year cars.)
Very nice, but not perfect. It's actually a 1924 Model year. The door handles are wrong - they look like the current reproduction ones which are 1926-27 The upholstery should be brown - not gray. The engine and spokes should be black.
They did include the correct stitching on the visor.
Nice looking car.
Odd to me that someone would take a car so far then leave the headlight wires without a wrap. Mighty pretty though!! Too pretty for me---I like the well used look.
I'm glad Boyd Coddington's not around to chop it up. He would not be able to resist destroying this beautiful little T like he did the perfect little '26 T coupe several years ago. Jim Patrick
The pictures show it off very nicely. It is missing the air tube between the exhaust manifold and carburetor.
Probably under the seat. You should always remove the heat tube in warm weather per the Ford Service Manual.
First thing I'd do is change the tires to black and either paint the spokes black or get a set of Buffalos.
That engine is beautiful.
I doubt that the front tires are 30X3. (Picky picky picky) It makes me feel I need to get mine completely redone.
I like my coupe. I like my coupe. I like my coupe. I like my coupe.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Jim Patrick - Funny you would bring that up. I watched that show for a while because I thought some of the guys he had working there were very talented. Then I saw him chop up that cute 27 and stopped watching. There's no shortage of re-pop metal bodies for hot rodders to do their thing with.
Same thing when Jesse James blew up that 1965 Peel Bubble car because the builders didn't finish it in 72 hrs. 'Stupid is as stupid does'.
Jimmy, same here. Did you notice how Boyd's crew got the door and fender gaps even? They smeared putty along the gap and then ran a paint stirring stick through it and let it set up. I am not kidding! I quit watching Jessie James' show when they tore up a nice Corvette to build some kind of goofy thing. It was bad enough that they tore up the 'Vette, but they didn't even try to save any parts(I know, it would take too long), they took the console out with a sledge hammer. As you said, stupid is as stupid does! Dave
Beautiful restoration! Like new!
Too bad about the wheels and tires. You would think that someone willing to restore it that nicely would want to make it correct. Nice car otherwise.
That can't be a real Model T!
Where is the rust or streaks of oil?
Even the muffler is chrome.
It must be a drawing or maybe a model!
Current high bid is $7600 - I wonder what the reserve is.
I like the white tires! Bud.
Those photographs are a very good example of how to show off your car. Sweet looking coupe!
Natural tires were available then. And after 1925, natural finish wood spokes were an option. So it is correct.
I just think it turns a common mans car into something too dressy.
If you really want it correct, add some imperfections and runs to the paint and dull the finish some. Ford would never have spent that much time to make a Model T THAT beautiful.
I once knew a jack of all trades named Mr. Moore, who lived down the road from me and helped me on the restoration of my T Coupe from 1970-72. At the time, he was about 76 years old and used to tell me about when he worked in Frostproof, Florida unloading Model T's from box cars. I seem to recall him saying they arrived standing up in the box cars, but I don't know how that would have worked unless there was some sort of rack for them to lean against. It would make sense though, for, if they were shipped on all four wheels you could not ship nearly so many as opposed to finding a way to ship them standing up as Mr. Moore said, so Ford would pay alot less shipping per car if he could find a way to ship the maximum amount of Model T's in the cubic footage provided. He also told me that one of his jobs was to clean off the straw from the still tacky paint and touch up the finish and get the cars running, before delivering them to the dealers. If anyone has pictures of this process I would be interested in seeing them. Jim Patrick
Extremely NICE! (I hate bud vases however.)
Jerry, I'm sure those were installed for the wife . Wives like to feel they are part of our T hobby and if a pair of bud vases will accomplish that then I can endure them.
I once had a friend who prided himself on being a manly man, that allowed his wife to put her vintage doll collection on the storage shelf behind the seat of his '26 coupe to make his wife happy... It creeped me out. I would much prefer bud vases to dolls. Jim Patrick
Very wise observations!
If unpainted spokes were an option after 1925 then it's still incorrect because the car is a 1923 model. That would be like me putting my demountables on a 1918 car.
I think the bud vases were a prelude to pine tree car air fresheners.
You're right, I thought that I read it was a '26 somewhere.
Was the seat normally that far back? Seems like the bench in my 27 coupe was pushed forward by the package tray.
The seller with this T always has very nice super solid and super slick cars... For sale. The last one I remember was a 1915 roadster pick up. It too was as nice as the coupe. No idea what the reserve price is set at, but I know it's above $9,500 don't ask how I know this.....wink ;~ )
Lovely resto! The incorrect details some sharp observers have pointed out are simple to remedy.
It's hard to get your money out of a car that you restored to that level unless it's something really rare. I couldn't sell something I spent that much time and money on, I'd have to keep it.
I have an old Ariel police motorcycle that I spent twice it's market value on and I'll never sell it only because I spent way too much time (five years) and too much effort getting parts for it from the UK. It too is a bit 'over-restored' but a few more years in my crowded workshop should add some patina. ;-)
Nice to see you posting again!
As to the wood spokes painted vs varnished. This discussion has been going on for a long time. About forty years ago, the SCVMTFC had this discussion go on for a few months of club meetings. One of the members found and brought in an original newspaper clipping for a local dealer. In the ad it stated that stripping and varnishing the wheels was available for a few (I forget how much) dollars. A hobby magazine article a little later reminisced about dealers hiring local kids to strip the paint off of spokes so they could be varnished. This is a valid argument for being era correct.
That all said. I prefer T wheels (and most other cars) painted black. My '24 T coupe came to me with natural finished wheel spokes. Some day, after several other projects are done, I may paint them. Till then, I can live with it.
I really need to get it painted. White tires would be nice. A proper upholstery job. Maybe detail the engine.
I love my coupe!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Era correct is not factory correct. To me, correct is the way it looked the moment it rolled out of the factory. That said Wayne, your coupe is gorgeous. One day I want one like it but, the spokes would have to be black. That's just me.
If you were to look close, you would see that it really could use a paint job. And the interior was done well, in a decent material, but not correctly or correct. All in all, it is the perfect model T. Nice enough to drive down the road or park next to any restored nickel era car and feel good about it. But not so nice as to worry about scratches or dings on picnics or dirt roads. If I spill my chocolate milk shake on the seat, oh well.
If I do not have to sell the car, some day, the spokes will be black. After a couple other cars are running first.
And Dave, thank you.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
You're welcome Wayne. Kinda sounds like my Runabout. Real nice but it has to be a driver first.
Years from now, when someone opens this thread, and tries to view the ebay auction, which ended long ago, to see the beautiful T we are going on about, they are going to be disappointed that no one thought to post the pictures on the thread for them to admire years from now. I tried, but the pictures are to big. Perhaps someone else can figure out how to reduce the resolution enough for them to post and then post all the pictures. Jim Patrick
In assembly line photos from the twenties, the tires appear gray or black. I think the white tires of earlier years were pretty much over by then. Other period photos from the twenties also show mostly gray or black tires.
While I'm on tires, I think whitewalls are overdone today. You see them on a lot of cars that originally came wearing black. Look at advertising for prewar cars, even Packards and Pierces, and you see mostly black tires.
Jim, you remember right about T's standing up in boxcars. I don't recall exactly where, but I've seen pictures of that.
Ron, I thank you and future members thank you. Great pics of beautiful T. Jim Patrick
Jim P and Ron L,
Thank you. I was never very good at swiping photos either. It certainly is reasonable to do so under these circumstances for the reasons Jim mentions.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Steve, I can find a thousand print ads of post-war cars from the 1950s with white walls on the web.
Am I misunderstanding your post?
And I am still curious - why is the seat so far back? Was that factory for 1924? My 27 coupe had a package tray putting the bench more forward by several inches.
The seat in that car looks similar in position to my '24 coupe. The upholstery looks nicer, though. My '24 has a small package tray behind the seat. I believe the '26/7 tray was slightly larger.
Danial, Good to see you are still with us! How is business?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Thanks for the kind words, Wayne. Business is good and fixing to get better...grin..
The seat in my coupe was just about even with the forward edge of the door window. This seat seems to be a few inches back from that.
Danial, you're right about postwar cars. Whitewalls became very popular in the fifties. But not so much before the war. Look at car ads from the thirties and you'll see whitewalls on some of the fancy cars, but even those often have blackwalls. Look at actual street scenes before the war, and you'll see that whitewalls are rare, even on the more expensive cars.
Has anyone ever seen an engine that clean on a car that's been used?
Mine looked like that (but black) before it went in the car.
The Ford PR showed off-white tires on the cars through the '25 model year. I'm sure that you could get black ones after 1917 or so, but probably for an additional charge. Maybe black ones were put on at the assembly plants in the later T years, but the catalog illustrations still showed off-white ones. When they went to 21" tires, they quit showing anything but black. I guess we'd need to see some assembly plant photos to know what was done in real life.
A friend of mine that is into Mopars has restored several cars (approaching a dozen). The first thing he does when he finishes a car is put it up for sale for a top-dollar price. His logic is that the car will never look better than it does the first few weeks after the restoration is completed. If he gets his price, he then has the money for his next project. If he doesn't, then he eventually starts driving and enjoying the car and it joins his collection.
Thanks Steve. I see your original post specifically mentioning prewar cars. I guess my reading comprehension wasn't up to par last night.
When I was young, my Mama said it was illegal to paint ladders, as the paint could hide rot. I'm good with that for spokes, too.
This picture is for Jim Patrick. This is one of a few that I have seen over the years. Regards, John
Thanks John. Your picture verifies what Mr. Moore told me. Now I can see why there was so much involved in unloading them and preparing them for delivery. The finish looks great though. I don't think I have ever seen such a glossy finish on a T directly from the factory. From what I've read and from what Mr. Moore told me, not much attention was given to the finish as they were loaded while still tacky and arrived covered in sawdust, straw, dirt and debris and I assume they would have had finger prints and hand prints from the loading process, requiring much touchup work by the offloading crews at their final destination. Jim Patrick
Here's a brand new 1924 touring with natural rubber tires similar to those on the beautiful coupe.
Does anyone know who is selling the car? Is he or she a MTFCA member? I am pretty sure the seller has previously sold numerous T's all beautifully prepared cars with lovely pictures all in a similar location. They have all sold for fair prices and he keeps coming up with nice cars for sale. If I was looking for one he would be a good place to start. just curious.
If I understand correctly that car sold for 13k which I'm sure is less than it would take to build one like that. There just doesn't seem to be a strong market for the black T's. I see many apparently good cars sell for well under 10k.
Great deal! As Miss Daisy would say "Highway Robbery!"
That coupe is really a great car but is probably a 1925. No one noticed the 25 front fenders, introduced in late 24 and continued on TT trucks thru 27.
Beautiful restoration and a real deal at 13k I think.
Interesting to see the Hill Garage ad for Hudson and Terraplane. I worked their for a while in the late fifties before going back to college. At the time it was a Nash dealership.
The buyer of that car surely got a fantastic car. David Sosnoski said it's very nice, yet not perfect, but purely based on condition I have never seen a better one, not even on photos.
I don't think the price reflects less interest in black era cars; I would think it's more the fact that it was a Coupe. Most people who can or want to have only one Model T desire an open car would be my guess. Only as a second T would a Coupe be considered, and that changes the entire group of potential bidders. Had this been a Runabout or Touring, the price would have been higher for sure.
Going this week end to pick up this car. Got lucky with this one. Going to meet the seller at Model T Museum in Richmond, IN. Our youngest daughter husband and grandson going along. They are third generation to be MTFCA members. Great to have them enjoy our T's What a great place to get another T. Will tour the museum while picking up the car.
Congratulations Wilbur. You got a real gem. Glad to see a member get it and keep it in the family (the T family). Take some pictures of you and your family picking up the T and photos of more T's at the museum to post here. Was the T you bought one of the exhibits? Jim Patrick
And it's only about a two hour drive from me! Woulda loved to check it out, except I'm tapped both for space and money! Maybe I'll see it running around here someday, you never know.
Thats a great car, well worth the money spent. For those that have done full restorations, you need several years, plenty of tools, and a sack full of money-way more than 13k.
That was a labor of love. The seller sure didn't make a profit on all the labor and materials that went into getting it to look so flawless. I would have put a reserve of at least $18,000.00 on it. It might not have sold but I would not have been so much in the hole, either. Jim Patrick
The car is definitely a 1924 model year. The 1924 features are the wood framed doors, the bell crank on the firewall (25 would have a swivel on the top of the carb), the tail light on the left side, the window crank handles and the windshield.
The front fenders are the 1925 style, as are the door handles. I'm assuming the door handles are the current reproduction ones. The 1924 style are not being reproduced and are typically split.
The real question is which style of 1924 Coupe is it? There's not enough detail photos to make that determination.
While the car is not perfect - it is one of the nicest restorations I've seen.
Congratulations, Wilbur, it's a beauty. I remember your name from the Arkansas Tin Lizzies Spring Tour last year. Maybe you'll be able to bring your "new" car to the MTFCA National Tour/Hillbilly Tour next month in Eureka Springs?
I agree with Warren. It is probably a '25, but it has an earlier tailight on it, no hot air pipe, and no looming over the rh headlight wires. I also have a personal dislike for step plates.
I agree with you about step plates Larry, but unfortunately, they are a necessary evil. While I would prefer the clean appearance of the plateless running boards, I like, even less, a running board replete with scratches, scuffs, rust and pitting resulting from muddy shoes grinding the dirt through the paint protecting the running board. Jim Patrick
Thanks to Bernard. Without your posting would not have looked at this car. You are also correct, this is not our first T. Will keep the natural finish wheels because I like them. Probably will get some black tires for touring and keep the whites for parades etc.
Is there a way to keep white tires from discoloring as they age such as keeping them wrapped up and sealed in plastic bags and/or out of the light? Large black plastic leaf bags would kill two birds with one stone. Jim Patrick
That coupe appears to have the '24 style windshield pulls. They look to be nickel plated and seperate from the windshield glass retainers. The pulls and glass retainers on my '25 coupe are one piece and showed no trace of plating on them. I think they are '25 only production, but I'm not sure. Question for Dave Sosnoski, are the window cranks pictured on this coupe correct for a '25 with steel doors? If not, what do they look like? Thanks, Dave
That coupe has wood framed doors. The window cranks are correct for the wood framed doors. The steel door used the later style which carried over into the 1926-27 closed cars. These don't have the big mounting screw in the center.
You are also correct about the finger pulls on the windshield. They are the 24 style which mount with 2 screws to the inside of the frame. The glass mounting clamp is a separate piece. The 25 style combined the clamp and finger pull into one piece.
That is why I say the Coupe is a 24. If it is a 25 it was built very very early in the 25 model year - within the first month or so. The only 25 features I see are the front fenders and door handles - both could have been changed during the restoration or earlier.
Thanks Dave. Do you have any pictures of the '25 style window cranks? Thanks again. Dave
There are actually 3 variations of them. One is cast bronze, one is cast zinc, and the other I think is cast aluminum. They all look almost the same but the drawings show they have a slightly different shape in the S curve. Also, I have some confusion if they have a set screw or a pin which holds them on. The drawing shows a set screw and there is also a part number for a pin. I've been trying to locate some original handles to photograph in detail.
Here's one on a 25 Fordor.
This one is held on with a cotter pin and I don't think it has a set screw.
Regarding your question about white (and white sidewalls). The main culprit is OZONE. I apparently generate a lot of it in my workshop as I watched a set of wide whites turn yellow in only a year.
Indoor storage (lying flat)away from any large electrical appliances will help a great deal. Yes a black trash bag will help filter ultraviolet rays and some ozone from sunlight.
In a perfect world, those big storage bags for winter blankets you see on TV where you suck the air out of with a shop vac and then it seal air-tight, is probably the best solution. I'd still follow up with a black trash bag to block light.
I have a very rare set of original wide white Dunlop motorcycle tires from 1958 that I store indoors in sealed trash bags under our bed. I don't know how long it lasts but I flush them (the thick mil trash bags) with inert ARGON/Nitrogen gas from my MIG welding tank when I seal the bags up. In five years of storage they've remained pristine & 'UN-yellowed'.
Some may ask why I would keep them in semi-permanent storage for 5 years. The answer is, The tires with those tread patterns are non-existent and I don't want to mount them until I retire the old Ariel from regular riding and use it only for shows. That could be a long time ;-)
Thank you James. I'm sure your suggestions will help Wilbur keep his baby's tires pristine white when he dismounts them for storage. They are only white once and once they turn yellow, its' too late to go back, so the precautions you have taken with yours have paid off. Jim Patrick
I have a 1924 Tudor sedan with similar window cranks with the large slot screw. When I cleaned them they are a beautiful combination of brass and bright nickel (?). When I get home will try to post a picture. While on this subject I need one of the large slot screws. Both front and back windows use the same crank. All work smoothly. Also thanks to James for advise on preserving the tires.
Thanks again Dave. My '25 coupe has old repro cranks on it and I've never seen what the original ones look like. Now I know what to look for. Dave