I was wondering if anyone has used one of the modern Neoprene crankshaft seals, Macs part number T3012M?
Do they simply replace the felt? I offered one up and it doesn't look like it will fit the channel the felt normally fills! Confused!!
I used that same seal. Yes, it certainly smaller than the felt, but basically, the instructions call for you to fill the channel with silicone (make sure it's completely clean of oil and debris first) so that it takes up all that extra space, and that's exactly what I did. It sounds crude, but after over a year, all I can say is that I haven't had a single drop leak around the front of the crank!
Richard, do as Cameron said. It works great. Dave
There is only one thing to watch for and that is some front plates don't lend themselves to the O.D. of the seal. you either have to machine out the front plate seal area, or go one size smaller with the O.D. of the seal about .083 thousandths.
If there is to small of an area, it will push the seal over, which makes a gap on the opposite side of the shaft, and there will be a leak, and some guys that say the seals leak, which is not true, they just didn't catch the problem.
Herm, does installing a modern seal make it more difficult to install/ remove the timing gear cover? Also, is the seal that Lang's sells the smaller size?
From my experience, not really. It still comes apart pretty easily. Just be sure to run another bead of silicone in the channel when you put it back together.
I have never had to take one apart.
Nobody carries one that I know of.
Normal seal No. 11740
Smaller O.D. No. 11736
Thanks guys. The seal didn't come with instructions which was rather unhelpful. I guessed it was a case of using silicone but thr seemed a bit of a bodge!
I guess I'm lucky. I buy old stock rope seals whenever I find them. I have the early style and the late style for my cars.
As I'm not a great fan of RTV, I was wondering if there is some type of packing that could be used around that modern seal, rather than silicone. Or maybe non-hardening gasket goo?
Please see the attached thread from 2012 detailing how I installed my modern seal when I assembled my overhauled engine. Posted Sept. 21, 2012 at 1:56 PM: www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/313252.html. As a result of this admittedly time consuming process (but well worth it), my engine still has no leaks almost a year later, driving it almost everyday, weather permitting. Jim Patrick
I read this post yesterday before I cleaned up one of my Four Dip Pans. I was looking at the front seal configuration because this pan had been leaking pretty good and discovered that the first dam that is riveted under the Crank Seal was cracked all the way around it's bottom where it joins the Pan. It appears to have been Soldered at one time. This cracked Solder bond only showed up when I cleaned this area real well and in looking at the Rivets they are still holding good. This particular leak would not have been fixed with a new seal and then I wondered how many T owners are fighting a seal issue when it could be a leak in this area right under the Crank.
Is this normal and why is it not Brazed like the rest of the Pan?
Most are cracked about an inch down from each side.
When I rebuild a pan, I always melt out the old babbitt, blast it, and put in new babbitt.
I have only found one pan in all the years that did not have to be fixed.
Ken Todd, why are you not a fan of RTV? That front seal is a perfect place to use it. It will even work if you use it to install the seal on the outside of the crankshaft seal area. Just curious. Dave
Use the Ultra Black sealer and not the regular RTV.
In my gasket application post:
b. "A thin coat of oil was applied to the rubber seal..."
Apply oil only to the rubber seal that makes contact with the crankshaft. Not the entire metal seal housing. The metal housing ring that the rubber seal is mounted in should remain dry so the Right Stuff will adhere to it and never let go. Also, I failed to mention it in the post but, a thin coat of grease should be applied to the crankshaft, in case enough Right Stuff squeezes out to make contact with the crankshaft it will not stick, but if you are careful in squeezing the Right Stuff into the lower and upper channels, so that just enough is used to seal around the metal seal ring up to the rubber seal, this should not be a problem. Jim Patrick
Kenny, back in 2010, when I was preparing to re-assemble my engine I asked a lot of questions on the forum and did a lot of research on rubber gasket sealants, including reading about them online from many sources and learned that, while "Ultra Black" is a superior gasket sealer, it is "oil resistant", not "oil proof", like "The Right Stuff". That is why I will use nothing but "The Right Stuff" on my engine gaskets. Jim Patrick
David Stroud, mostly I don't like it because it's so hard to completely remove and also that unless the surfaces it's being put onto are operating room clean it doesn't seal oil very good. In my experience cast iron that's been oil soaked for years is almost, if not completely, impossible to clean good enough for RTV to seal.
If you clean with solvent, and blast the front plate, you will not have any problems with it.
Nothing Sticks To Dirt!
The best ATV is the clear, as it is the strongest, and cures the fastest, because it is not diluted with the pigment to get the different colors. All the colored ATV, such as black, Blue Ect. is a weaker material.
I strongly disagree. I don't think there is any pigment added to the "Right Stuff" to make it black. Had they been able to achieve the same strength and superiority with the ingredients they used to have the best gasket sealant on the market and it turned out pink, that is the way it would have been sold but as it was, it turned out black, not due to pigments, but to the ingredients used. The results I have achieved with the Right Stuff is no less than miraculous to have stopped a T engine from leaking and I will use nothing else from here on. Jim Patrick
That should have been R.T.V.
Jim, better read my post again and see if you can see any place where I said anything about the Right Stuff.
I have never even seen what it looks like.
But what I said about the R.T.V. still stands, as I have used every kind of that.
Herm, If you have never seen the Right Stuff or Ultra Black then how would you know how good it is?
It's the only thing I'll ever use as well. Plain old RTV just isn't as good, don't know why but maybe that's why the OEM factories use it.
Herm, Even though you mentioned no specific brand, the "Right Stuff" is black, so the implication was there. I strongly recommend you try the "Right Stuff" then honestly reassess your opinion.
I usually respect your opinion, but to learn you are recommending gasket sealants without having even heard of the best sealant there is, is cause for concern. Unlike you, I have tried them all and have made my choice based upon that, as well as extensive research and most on this site, who have used the "Right Stuff", will agree with me. Jim Patrick
Both of you commented about the right stuff, I did not.
You both are trying to put words in my mouth.
I commented on R.T.V., of which I have used for many years and have much experience with.
And if I need gasket cement I use Permatex 300, or Indian Head, made by Permatex.
Are we going to make a long post out of this for me trying to show you two miss read my post again?
The best ATV is the clear, "END QUOTE"
How is that in any way about the right stuff. A.T.V. is made by Permatex!
If you have never seen the Right Stuff or Ultra Black then how would you know how good it is?"END QUOTE"
Again, I didn't Comment on the right stuff!
"The results I have achieved with the Right Stuff is no less than miraculous to have stopped a T engine from leaking."
The way I see it, if it's not leaking oil, it's not authentic.
BTW, is "The Right Stuff" a type of silicone?
I looked at Permatex's website and it didn't specify.
Ken, I guess if you don't mind puddles of oil in your garage and on your driveway, that is your prerogative, but there is an option... however, no RTV, or gasket sealer, no matter how good, will stop the leaks if your pan is not true, or if you have not taken the time or steps to installed the gaskets properly.
I am no authority on the "Right Stuff" so cannot provide you with the technical aspects of it. All I have to go on is my personal experience and the advice of those respected individuals on this forum who first turned me on to the Right Stuff in 2010. It works for me and I will continue to use it over everything else if I ever need to overhaul another engine. Jim Patrick
Well said Jim, Too bad Herm won't bother check it out.
Yes it is a form of RTV kind of stuff, I think,
I have been also using some Ultra Black with good results and besides being a little cheaper it takes longer to cure. The Right Stuff is good right away.
To those that like to see where they parked their cars, Stay away from my driveway. I carry a sheet of cardboard under my floor mat just in case.