This is a very useful chart showing Ford tools size requirements for all parts on the car. This was originally researched and Posted by member Mr. Dan Treace
The "original" post was not made by Dan. It was scanned and reduced by another member who's name escapes me at the moment. The copy I have predates Dan's post by more than a year. It pops up on the forum about twice a year.
Wasn't it originally posted by Gunny?
I don't think it was "The Gunny". I think it was someone new to the forum at the time. My copy dates from 2009 only because that was the file backup I had of the old PC before the drive crashed. It may date back to 2005 or so. I really hated it when the forum crashed all those times way back. A lot of good info was lost.
The earliest that I've found it was August 2008:
That chart is out a Frank Mossberg tool catalog and the numbers and wrench outlines show which Mossberg wrench to use on each bolt. I have an original copy of it in a 1927 Mossberg catalog. I know the history of all the Mossberg, Apco, and Apco Mossberg tools and accessories as I grew up in those factories, Frank Mossberg was my Grandfather.
I think that may be it Garnet!
We certainly thank your Grandfather for coming up with the chart Chester. It's helped a lot a people over the years. Have any other catalog entries of interest to the forum? Old accessories are always a great conversation topic.
The chart is helpful, and so is the NCMTFC Bolts & Nuts List (http://clubs.hemmings.com/ncmtc/Technical/Bolts_nuts_threaded_items.pdf), but they both have their limitations. The chart shows only wrench sizes, not thread sizes or lengths. The list shows thread sizes and lengths, but it appears no additions or corrections have been made for years.
Darren Wallace posted this a few years back (around the same time as the bolt chart) Steve. Check out the link that Jerry supplied:
That was back when I was "Ken-SAT". I figured no one knew where Lytle was.
I thought I posted this before but here it is again. It's the ASME number sizes.
The chart originally comes from the Canadian Ford Service Bulletins. Bruce reprinted it in the 1970-80's in the Vintage Ford.
I don't believe Ford created a chart to inform the customer which Mossberg wrench to use on each bolt on a Model T. My Grandfather did,however, manufacture many of the Ford service tools for Ford. Many of those tools can be identified by a diamond with an M inside it stamped on the wrench next to the Ford stamp. After 1927 the diamond stamp was no longer used as my Grandfather merged Apco and the Frank Mossberg co. to form the Apco Mossberg Co. He started started phasing out of making Ford service tools and Ford accessories after he merged the two companies. He did make cranks for the new Model A, although these were not stamped with the diamond trademark as these were manufactured by Apco Mossberg Co.
I've been familiar with that chart for years,since it first appeared on the forum, but have never referred to it. I can figure out the tool necessary to tighten the bolt so that information is unnecessary. As great as that chart appears, at first glance,it really does not provide all the information we need without alot of cross referencing and research. If someone could use their expertise and "white out" to translate the codes to actual information we could use and in place of the codes, post all the fastener information, ie, the bolt size, grade, thread count, length of the bolts, washers (flat or split) and nut type (pan, castle or hex), it would go from being an interesting chart to look at to an invaluable reference to all of us and settle once and for all, what bolt and nut went where, but as it is with just the size, it's not much help to the layman who is interested in all of the bolt and nut info and where each goes. Jim Patrick
Chester, The chart came out in the February 1925 issue pages 68 and 69 of the Ford Canada Bulletins On page 70 an article titled "Good Wrenches" mentions "The illustration on the preceding page was loaned to us by courtesy of Frank Mossberg Company. and illustrates the complete line of wrenches in a very outstanding manner" Ford obviously thought his service people could use the chart.
I'm not sure where the copy posted came from but I sent a photo copy of the pages to Bruce McCalley from a set of Bulletins I have way back in the 1970's. It was published in the Vintage Ford at that time.
Peter, I find it interesting that Ford of Canada printed a chart showing which of the wrenches manufactured by my Grandfather should be used to service the Model T. Ford did have tools, which they sold, to service most of the bolts on the Model T. My Grandfather always was very careful not to compete with Ford to much in the accessory and tool market, Ford would not do business with companies that they felt were competing with them. That is why apco did most of the after market sales and did not do business with Ford directly. Ford of Canada must have had a more liberal policy than Ford in this country did. It must be remembered that the original purpose of this chart was to sell wrenches not to document nuts and bolts on the Model T. No matter how much we know about the Model T there is always something else to learn.