I've been on the forum for about a year and a half. It's been such a huge huge help as I've been restoring my 16 touring. Which, BTW, is going back together nicely.
I’m very grateful to many of you for your kind help.
I have purchased all the books, video's, and watched all the you tube video's I can find.
I was just looking at the nuts and bolts thread. So, I was thinking, “What can I add to the forum?”
I thought a newbie perspective might help. Here’s what I see:
What would be enormously helpful are two things:
1. As a newbie - a retired surgeon, good with my hands when taught properly – it would be great to have some sort of 'self-proclaimed' expertise rating that would appear on the member's profile. As I've been reading posts over the past year or so, I have no idea who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't.
There are a few folks who's expertise is clear - Royce, Jim, Dan, Hap,ect ect. (yes, they do disagree at times- which is wonderful). However, beyond that, we 'newbies' can only guess if the person on the other side of cyber space is full of it or not.
2. Imagine how wonderful it would be to have a video reference library that would available to see how to do all the little do-dahs we need to do? I rode over to Dan Hatch’s home last weekend to look at wiring, learn how to install wheel bearing races, etc..It was a very worthwhile trip and I left with a much better understanding of the direction I need to proceed.
Jim Patrick has made some great videos and they are VERY helpful. There MUST be many more out there.
There was a discussion a few weeks ago about how to keep young people involved. We MUST preserve this knowledge base or they will not be able to stay involved. It’s that simple.
So for starters, how about you guys post on this thread all the links to all the restoration/repair videos’ you guys have available.
If you have videos and lack the computer skills to upload them, just say so. We’ll work it out.
It would be a huge huge project, but I can’t imagine a more valuable teaching tool than a video of a complete restoration – shot over whatever time period – from start to finish. How exciting would that be??
Just a drop of oil…
oops...that should have read "Recommendations for the forum"..
"I feel sorry for the man who only knows one way to spell a word"
Bruces black book is a good one for starters. The other best way is to observe original untouched cars, or ones that are known to have been restored correctly.
Rating is a subjective thing at times and if the teacher teaches but the student makes a mistake, the student could rate the teacher at a lower level. I believe that it is better for the student to read the advise and compile several lessons and round them off into one, Then do the job. Remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I'm not using daylight hours for this, but I'll post some video links later. I think a collection of links to restoration videos is a great idea.
I'm so sorry. I meant to include you as one of the frequent video posters.
They are always very helpful!
I don't think I would care to have a rating system of people's knowledge. There are often multiple schools of thought on a subject. None of which are necessarily wrong, but may vary drastically.
Your post said the rating could be 'self proclaimed'. I would be VERY leary of that! I'd hate to see how a couple of 'Experts' on here would rate themselves.
Of course, you could have others rate them. But then what about the guys who do know their stuff, but piss others off with the way they say it? They'll get the short end of the stick because of a popularity contest.
No, I'd rather not open that can of worms.
Iv been around old cars since I was a very young man. Owned my fair share of them. Iv had my Model T's for many years and am still learning from the members of this forum. If I was to give the one piece of information to the new model T owner it would be to buy your new Model T already 100% restored. Iv got more money invested in my 1919 than I would ever dream of getting back out of it.
I'm still looking for a video of the step by step process of installing a new 2 man top on my touring car.
Will, you hit the nail on the head. Buying a restored or running original with minimal restoration requirements is the way to go for all new-to-Model T owners.
Everyone has their own agenda for their car(s), and it may not fit everyone considering a T for the first time, but your advice merits serious consideration for any not-yet-initiated prospective owners.
Inevitably, the MTFCA forum will transition to a new forum software, and, like the software used at the MTFCI forum, it will probably have the capability for a ratings system, etc. Whether those capabilities get enabled is something different. At the very least, it will be able to show a users post count, which, while not really an indicator of expertise, it does show you who has been around the forum for a long time and posts a lot and, presumably, has a fair amount of knowledge.
I would lean away from self-ratings. I'm not sure I'd want any ratings. But a "recommended post" button wouldn't be too bad, that way a particular bit of sage advice could the "thumbs upped" by a lot of distinct users. That would give the newbie some idea of where the consensus on a particular issue lands. It wouldn't be a blanket approval of a particular user - just an approval of a particular post. That way, even if a certain user is disliked "personally", when his post is technically correct it will be so recognized. Who knows, positive reinforcement may result in higher quality posts.......
I suspect the "ratings" would be influenced more by who has the most/least friends and enemies, rather than the extent of their T knowledge.
I see big potential for a lot of bruised egos if implemented as well.
I think Bob Solak's idea of rating posts has a lot more merit than rating posters. If you watch the forum for a while, you will form your own ratings of the various posters. But many kudos given to a particular post might help newbies know what posts to believe.
As for the first part of Bob's post, I don't think that the number of posts someone puts up necessarily bears any relationship to that poster's knowledge. All it shows is that poster's perception of his own knowledge.
I understand where you're coming from and your frustration. The fact is, that at some point or another, nearly everyone who posts here has had something valuable to contribute. So, a rating system, aside from being very divisive, would negate any input that some "low rated" individual might offer, no matter the value. I would hope that once and a while I contribute something of value. However, I know for a fact, I'm sometimes off base, (read as "wrong"). I think most folks fall into that same category. Yes, it makes it hard for a beginner to hear many conflicting voices but, in the long run, I think it's best to get all ideas out in the open, (both good ones and bad ones), and to discuss them all on their merits and shortcomings, as long as it all remains civil. I find that I learn more here by being wrong and corrected, than by giving advice. Hopefully there is value for others as well in my fumblings on this public forum.
Very modest Jerry, but you are a valued resource. Only problem I see with the "market place of ideas" approach is that a beginner has no way to figure which advice is good and which is less than good. I question how that could be avoided though. To have everyone rate themselves wouldn't work. Ever heard the expression "if you bought him for what he's worth and sold him for what he thinks he's worth, you'd make a fortune?" I suspect the same thing would happen with self ratings.
Maybe the best way would be to have posters critique an approach so that errors or misadvice would be exposed. All cordial of course. That would also require the person whose advice is criticized be able to accept it without resorting to personal attacks. No one wants that.
It is also true that many of the very knowledgeable people who used to support and post to the forum no longer do so on any kind of a regular basis. For a variety of reasons, some of which are the negative posts about anything they say. All you have to do is look back a few years and see some very smart guys who folded their keyboard and went away.
If I were to have any input, I wish there were some way to "like" someone's post.
I seldom post anymore, don't read most of the threads and go for days without even looking at it. I've been here since almost the beginning and am still as involved with T's as I ever have been, just tired of the forum.
I think any kind of a "rating system" will just alienate posters and lose participation in the long run.
A novel way to garner brownie points, a form of ratings, if you will, has been done on another automotive forum. That is to allow registered forum users to send a public "Thank You" to others that have helped them with valuable or useful information. The number (or relative percentage) of "Thank You's" is continually tracked and is visible near the avatar or profile for all forum posters. Posters are limited to giving only one "Thank You" for each thread that is posted by a particular person. Also, you can't thank yourself!
It would appear that Mitch is attempting to do what you suggest...
Since I play with hit/miss motors too, I started visiting www.smokstak.com and they have a system that allows folks to "thank" someone after they read a post. It gives the author some sense that what he has said is being appreciated which is good in that it makes the author way more careful of what he is saying and doing since he gets feedback that there are lots of readers out there. The avatar states how many posts that author has made - how many times he has been thanked in those posts and also how many times he himself has thanked others. It tells all with a very simple system. I like simple ideas that work very well for a lot of reasons and are easy to understand and use. That system fills the bill the best of anything I have seen but I don't usually suggest work that is to be done by others since there is a lot of that and it doesn't work and isn't fair. When a post says "someone should...." or "you should..." or "the club should..." I don't think that helps very much. What works is if someone says "I am thinking about doing something that I think would help folks to..."
It say's at the top,Post for the good of the hobby! People who have a adgenda sometimes use their T and this Forum to try to advance their thought's on various topics! Bud.
A video library accessed thru the clubs web site is a great idea. Better then searching thru youtube or asking you guys all the time.......
I restored my '26 coupe in 1970-72 from the age of 16 when I bought for my life savings of $600.00 from an old man in Tampa, FL when I saw it in the classified section of the Tampa Tribune. It was in terrible shape but was all there. This was before the Forum so I had to rely on 3 books to get 'r done and do it on a budget of the $1.65 I earned an hour bagging groceries after High School. The green Ford Model T Service manual, the big red soft cover Model T Restoration manual and the Model T Service Bulletins Essentials. That's it, but those books provided me most of what I needed to complete the restoration. What was not in the book, I learned on my own such as scraping the old soft babbit down until it was firm and cleaning the mag coil and coating the shredded coil insulation with many layers of with GE Glyptal (surprisingly, the mag worked for 40 years after that and still worked when I sent it to Total Recoil to be refurbished by Wally). Those two years taught me a lot about Model T's and more about myself and I have loved them for 43 years.
Most folks on the Forum are humble and would be reluctant to rate themselves and would much rather be rated by their peers based upon what they consider the rating to be, if a rating system were to evolve, but as mentioned earlier, those with egos might not appreciate a rating less than they feel adequately reflects their opinion of themselves . As for me, I know my limitations and don't have an ego that bruises easily so don't mind admitting when I get it wrong and am corrected by one of the experts. As much as I used to think I knew about model T's pales in comparison to many on this forum that know much more than I and I learn something new each time I go onto the Forum. Jim Patrick
As one of the world's great experts, I'm spared from conceit by my awesome humility. And of course that humility is fed by regular acts of stupidity and/or incompetence that shatter my delusions of adequacy. I rate myself bewildered.
As promised, here are some video links. Some can be considered informational, and others are just for fun:
Thank you Steve! In my opinion this is what this forum is about. I would rather read 1 post from someone with humility and a hint of humor than 100 from some expert with a negative narrow minded agenda.
I enjoy Steves post and think him nothing short of genius!! However,I will say the post with the radiator in the shower could be deadly if caught by the Wife?? Bud.
The idea of literature available is a good one. There is a list already on the website, and a store,listed on the website where the publications can be purchased. I, personally like the books better than videos. A video will show you a hands on method of doing a job, but you can take the book to the jobsite and carefully follow the instructions. Both methods work.
As for rating the poster on expertise, I don't think it would be useful. It would only work if we could get God to be the judge. All others would just bring on personal likes and dislikes and personality problems and serve no practical purpose.
If one would care to rate others personally as to whether their judgement is good and follows common sense, do it yourself, but also keep it to yourself. We have more than enough criticism on this forum, and it only bruises egos.
Quite often when someone asks questions about a particular problem and many suggested cures are offered, the cure turns out to be something else, which was not addressed. Many symptoms are similar but are caused by different things. A few examples are a "knock", a noise in the "transmission" A "misfiring" A "slow engine" etc. There could be many possible causes for the above problems, the worst is when two or more occur together, and we test for one of them and it doesn't appear to correct the problem, because of more than one cause.
I could go on and on, but please don't rate the posters. Just use your judgement and with experience, you will be able to figure most things out for yourself. By the way, it is a good sign, when a so called "expert" asks others for advice. Nobody knows it all!
Paul's statement above is so true.
the rating etc,Sounds good but Can't emagine it working on any level. Do or would surgeons do it?
With personalities,egos,modest,shy,no-it-alls ,Purists,,stuborn ,wing and a prayer guys,Pros,good and bad ,nice guy bad mechanic ,loyalties etc who could it really.
Best I think and simplest way if at all for a rating is on a members profile,that( Self proclaimed) himself ,as
Newbie level, beginner level, Intermediate, advanced, die hard , professional(you make your ONLY living at it)and how many years active. Plus 100% purest or anythings goes might be considered.