I will replace all spokes on my 1925 Roadster.
I would like to buy hickory spokes.
I have checked these 3 distributors:
Lang's, Mac's, Snyders. They all have different prices.
My Question: Are they all the same quality ?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Best quality at Lang and Snyders. I use them both and can't say a difference. Black rim are spokes from Snyders the white rim are Langs.
So you are pressing spokes on the dining room table...quite a woman you have there.
I once asked the vendors which variety of hickory, and didn't get a reply. There are big differences in the strengths of hickories, but all are better than the best oak, which was all they sold ten years ago.
Stutzman's wheel shop has a great reputation doing full wheel rebuilds but will also sell you just the spokes for a good price:
Stutzman Wheel Shop
33656 County Road 12
Baltic, Ohio 43804
Couldn't think of a better place to rebuild a wheel!
Would you like fries with that order of Hickory smoked spokes? LOL
Stutzman spokes are excellent and the price is great.
I got mine from Snyder's and they are superb. It's also kinda fun to do it yourself and you get a whole lot more pride and satisfaction out learning to do something new (or old) and being able to tell everyone, "I did that", as you point to your beautiful re-spoked wheel. Jim Patrick
PS. I should say that, I had to scrape the flat angled portions of the spokes that I primed and painted, as the paint prevented the spokes from pressing in. After scraping, they pressed in nice and tight and I touched up the joints to make them waterproof. Jim Patrick
Willi -- Stutzman's probably is the best and least expensive place to buy spokes here in the USA. Your profile doesn't say, but I gather that you are not in the USA. I mention that only because Stutzman's might not ship to non-USA addresses. I don't know that, but it might be a problem. They also could be the supplier of spokes to vendors such as Lang's and Snyder's.
I'm not a distributor guy, but I have heard good things about the one made by Texas T Parts. If I were going to use one, I'd buy theirs.
Mike, I could be wrong but I believe Willi is asking which spoke distributor has the best spokes and prices Jim Patrick
Jim -- After re-reading his post, I believe you're right. Oh well.........
Thank Mike. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who misinterprets the occasional threads. At least we're not alone. LOL! Jim Patrick
I like your spoke press. Looks like you press them in from the back. Simple and seems to do the job! Looks easier to make than the Regan press.
Perhaps you can provide us the plans to construct?
I think pressing from the back is the only way to do it.
Steve, I assume pressing from the back still requires alot of manual adjustment of each spoke while pressing to ensure the spokes stay in alignment, don't twist, or become uneven (one higher or lower than the next). I know when I did mine, I had to adjust each spoke after each turn of the nut until the spokes reached a point that they could no longer be moved by hand, at which point, they were locked in place and would go in nice and smooth. Jim Patrick
I don't want to bother them with just a question, since I have no immediate plans to buy spokes. If you deal with Stutzman's in the near future, would you please ask what variety of hickory they use, and report back?
I just dropped off my TT wheels at Stutzman's on Tuesday for re-spoking. I will try to remember to ask them which variety when I pick them up in a couple of weeks. Very nice people there. $150 each to have the front ones done, $180 each for the rear ones.
My press is based on John's press I just took out the wood blocks in the corner and add a 18mm square plywood plate with 4 holes to block the rim.
To keep the spokes in alignment I use a cardboard plate the same form and size as the cover plate on the wheels.
Does anybody true up the steel rims before they respoke? or by some miracle all your rims are barely out of true(less than 1/4") in any and all directions!
I don't really understand what you mean by "true up the steel rim" but I think you mean the rim should be a perfect circle. I think this is not "that" important even if the rim is egging for 3/8". What is really important is the length of each spoke.
Here is how I learned to do it.
Clean up the rim very well also the holes where the spokes go. For the 1/2" tenons I drill them out with a 13mm drill (1/2" tenons spokes are 14mm dia) clean also the hub and the backing plate. Make for each wheel a new cardboard backing plate, you will need this to keep the spokes aligned when you are pressing the Wheel together.
On a flat surface you make a star with the spokes as showing on the first picture I posted a few days ago. Now, and this is important for the perfect circle, you need to make each spoke the same length and outside and Inside diameter must be the same everywhere. This can be changed by grinding the flat sides of the spokes. I make the outside diameter 5mm lager as the rim Inside diameter to have a tension on the spokes as they are pressed all in. The inside diameter of the spokes is the same as the the outside diameter of the hub and must be the same for all spokes. With the Langs and the Snyders spokes I never had to change much to make the spokes fit, just clean them and they are ready to use.
Now you can start to assemble the Wheel.
Fix the rim and the hub with the cardboard plate on your press and make a wigwam with the spokes, tenons in the holes and flat part on the cardboard.
Press it all slowly together and pay attention that your spokes stay flat on the cardboard and against the underside of the hub. The hub holes should be aligned with the side of the spokes NOT in the middle of the spokes. When you are all way down you can drill the bolt holes and assemble the backing plate on the Wheel.
If you have made spokes the right length and you have pressed the spokes flat together you should have a round and straight wheel.
Don't worry I have to do it a few times before I had a straight flat wheel. Best is to have no paint on the tenons and in the holes and on the flat sides of the spokes where they come together and touch the hub.
It is a great-uncle who taught me to do it this way. Now he is 86 years old and retired. He earned his living as a village blacksmith.
Just try it, It will give you much satisfaction.
What you guys are calling the rim is actually the felloe. The rim has the tire on it and is bolted to the felloe of the finished wheel.
John Regan explained to me that the press works best if the felloe isn't fastened down. I believe Jim Patrick's pictures show the right method.
Well, I picked up my respoked wheels today. Mr. Stutzman did an absolutely fantastic job on them.
I said I would ask what kind of hickory they use for these spokes, and wonder of wonders, I actually remembered to! He said they use shell bark hickory.
Thank you, Roger. Did he say any more about different hickories?
Somewhere I must have the source of this data, but I can't find it:
Tree Species Average Specific Gravity, Oven Dry Sample Static Bending Modulus of Elasticity (E) Impact Bending, Height of Drop Causing Failure Compress. Parallel to Grain, Max Crushing Strength Compress. Perpen. to Grain, Fiber Stress at Prop. Limit Shear Parallel to Grain, Max Shear Strength
(0-1.0) 10^6 psi inches psi psi psi
Hickory, Shagbark 0.72 2.16 67 9,210 1,760 2,430
Hickory, Shellbark 0.69 1.89 88 8,000 1,800 2,110
Oak, White . . . . 0.68 1.78 37 7,440 1,070 2,000
Big difference from oak is Height of Drop. Red oak is much worse.
Sometimes they get in a log or two of another variety, which I don't remember, that they only use on things like wagon wheels that will only get occasional use. He did say that there wasn't too much difference between the wood of the Shellbark and Shagbark. Not related to the wheels, he did say that the nuts off one of the trees was a bit more bitter than the other....
If I had another T that needed wheels redone, I wouldn't hesitate at all to have Mr. Stutzman do them. For my TT, he charged me $180 per rear wheel and $150 per front wheel. And for $45 per wheel he sandblasts and primes them before putting the spokes in. Will post some pictures later.
Somewhere I remember the name of the Hickory was "Shagbark and I think it was or had been mentioned as 2nd growth or maybe old growth.
That may have been my mistake, Bill, as I could find no other data, and Shagbark appeared to be more plentiful.
Early Model T ad.
Tim Moore sent me this pic of a Shagbark on his place in mid-Mich, and I think the Kingsford forest in Mich provided the wood for the spokes.