How bad is it.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: How bad is it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 12:20 pm:

Had an oil leak in my 17 roadster so removed transmission cover. Put on new gaskets with permatex and began re assembly that is when I dropped one of the band sring retaining washers into the transmission. Tried to fish it out with a magnet but no luck so far. My next move is to remove the panel under the crankshaft and try to get a magnet in from there. If I can't get it will it just lay in the bottom of the sump or will it do damage. Any magic solutions. I know what I should have done to prevent this but I thought I was smarter than the system as usual. I was wrong. I am sure I am not the first or the last to do this. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 12:25 pm:

No Magic. No, chances are, it won't stay at the bottom. Sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 12:29 pm:

Did you try and fish it out from the drain plug hole? I was able to successfully retrieve a cotter pin from the bottom of the pan through the drain hole, after draining the oil, using a small magnet on the end of a telescoping rod. You also might be able to bend a wire and scoop the washer toward the drain hole and let it fall out. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Humble on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 12:29 pm:

Don,
Common problem, not just for washers but keys too, check out the older postings about this. flush it down to the drain plug with oil, once you feel it at the drain hole hook wire to it and pull it up the way it went in. Been there, done that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 12:30 pm:

Drain the oil, take the transmission cover off... again ... use a sacrificial bath towel, insert on flywheel and feed towel lenghtwise along flywheel having someone slowly turn the engine with the hand crank... watch towel's emergence on passenger side along with the offending band lockwasher may be on a magnet or the towel. Good Luck.

Next time shove clean towels on all sides of trans bands to catch anything that would drop.... especially, remove ignition key before it drops... it happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 01:28 pm:

You didn't state whether you have a magneto in the car. Quite often when something falls into the transmission it will stick to one of the magneto magnets. If you remove the cover again (sorry) you will have more room to look down into the transmission and more room to fish with a magnet or a wire with a hook. If you are lucky you will either find it that way, or if you rotate the engine, you will find it on one of the magnets.

This is a VERY important thing to remove this washer and anything else which might be in the sump. They don't stay there and can cause some VERY costly damage.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 01:32 pm:

It's bad. I discovered the hard way that an ignition key had been dropped in my transmission. There's no telling how long it had been in there but one day it came out of hiding and wrecked my magneto coil. Don't do anything until you fish that washer out.

I have my entire engine apart and have added oil slingers while going to a front plate magneto. I may end up with a distributor but thought I would try the front plate mag first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 02:31 pm:

I did this once many years ago; Norman is correct; I got lucky and as soon as I got the cover off there was the washer sitting on top of one of the magnets. Bob J is also correct; his method also once worked for me.

I doubt that you will be able to get a band nut or washer out the drain hole; the baffle prevents anything larger than a cotter pin from retrieval that way. However, you still can use the drain hole to help get it out if it isn't stuck to a magnet: if you can move it over the edge of the drain hole using a magnet or wire or by tapping on the crankcase so that it hangs over the edge of the opening, tie some dental floss to it and leave about a foot extra so you can hold onto it. Get a piece of uncoated brass braze rod about 1/16" diameter or so. Have a helper stand ready, leaning over the transmission. While holding the dental floss in one hand, use the other to poke the end of the rod up through the drain hole (bypassing the tied washer), around the drums and out through the door opening (if the cover's still on). As soon as your helper can grab it, have him or her hold it while you tie the floss to your end of the rod, and then your helper can pull the rod and the attached washer out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 02:44 pm:

My dad told me a story from back when people used the T as a regular car. He had some neighbours who decided to adjust the bands. They succeeded in dropping a pair of pliers in and left it in there!! They drove the car about 1/4 mile and everything came to a sliding halt!!!. They went and got the horses and loaded the car up onto a stoneboat and dragged it home. The repairs were extensive!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 04:59 pm:

I got it! Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I drained the oil, pulled the drain plug and removed the crankcase cover. I could feel the washer though the oil drain plug hole. I took an old broken magnetic retrieving wand I had and cut it off leaving about 1 1/2 inches of wand attached to the magnet. I then drilled a hole in the remaining wand piece that I could put a fairly stiff piece of wire through and twist the end so the magnet couldn't come off. I then inserted the non magnet end of the wire up though the oil drain hole and reached in a grabbed it putting my free hand up in the crank case opening and feeling around for the wire. Once I had a a hold of the wire I slowly pulled the magnet up though the drain hole and it picked up the washer on its way past. I just slowly pulled the wire up past the magneto and it was out. I did have to try several times to find a path for the wire up past the mag. I got lucky, the whole proceedure took 20 minutes. Thanks again. From now on I stuff the band area full of rags
Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 09:34 pm:

Glad you got it! another way to do it is to use a length of bell wire. Work the item to the drain hole, hook it so it stays in place. Feed the bell or other thin wire up through the drain hole till you can grab it through the trans. inspection hole. Now tie the other end to the item and gently pull it up and out. If it gets tangled in the starter ring, turn the motor with the crank till it drops free.


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