Wooden Wheel Bolts

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Wooden Wheel Bolts
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bruch on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 09:30 pm:

For some reason the search function isn't working...I keep getting an "internal error" message.

I'm putting new, larger drums on a wooden wheel. What is the proper technique, torque, etc for the nuts/bolts?

Also is there any way other than the awkward angle of an open wrench to tighten them? A socket doesn't fit.

Thanks and sorry for the dumb questions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 10:05 pm:

There is no torque specification for any fastener on a Model T. In this case tighten until snug and peen over the end of the bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, August 08, 2013 - 10:14 pm:

Tighten them until just before they break. http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=118802&post=274808

Once you have them tight, peen them. Put the point of a punch between the nut and the end of the bolt and whack the punch with a hammer. The idea is to lock them in place so they don't work loose.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 03:09 am:

Steve, that's not peening, that's staking. Peening is bending the end of a bolt over the nut, like riveting. Just being picky. Also don't do as Royce said and snug the bolts, TIGHTEN them TIGHT, then peen them. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 07:49 am:

Not sure what you are saying David. These nuts won't take all the strength I can put on a normal Snap On double box wrench. If I tighten that nut as tight as I can with a wrench I can strip out the bolt or even snap it off, which I sometimes do when removing a rusty one of these. You can only tighten these bolts until all the play is removed, and perhaps a couple wrench flats further. I call this snug.

Then peen over the entire end of the bolt. Like this:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 09:17 am:

It is difficult to tell someone who has not had much mechanical experience, how tight to tighten a bolt and nut. You just know it when you feel it, based upon many years of experience. To tell someone to tighten a bolt until you can't tighten it anymore is dangerous. I can bench 300 lbs. so I could easily break off a bolt if I tightened it until I could tighten it no more. Mine are peened like Royce's and they aren't going anywhere. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 09:27 am:

If you grind down the face of a socket it will fit and capture the nut. For that diameter bolt, about 35 lb-ft would be correct. That is the torque figure I was given by a wheel maker and the gentleman the produces floating hubs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 10:04 am:

I'm not sure what the vendors are selling, but RV is making grade 5 correct hub bolts. I'm sure the vendors have the correct nuts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 10:05 am:

First REPLACE the bolts with new bolts from RV Anderson! The original bolts are mild steel and prone to stretching and shearing when you start improving the brakes.
Also although you want the bolts tight, to my understanding you don't want to distort the plate that the bolts pass through on the front of the wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 10:11 am:

Peening is the correct way to do it, I have seen staked nuts come undone on more that one occasion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 10:21 am:

If you're building a new wheel, do what Royce suggests. However, I'd add that with new spokes, give it a couple days and come back and tighten again and THEN peen them (or at least re-peen). My experience has been that there always seems to be some creep and compression that occurs in the first few days


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 07:45 pm:

Royce, what you are doing, I would call tight. To me, snug is about two grunts before tight! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, August 09, 2013 - 10:13 pm:

You guys sound like the mechanics we have working on our equipment in China

We expected experienced mechanics to understand how to tighten bolts but were surprised when they were slightly beyond finger tight. Then when we told them that they needed to be tighter they broke about 25% of the the bolts - most of then small. Then we explained that small bolts were not as strong as big bolts. They looked at us like we were crazy so we finally had to give then torque wrenches with specifications for each size bolt.

A few months later I returned to China and no-one was using the torque wrenches because "it took too much time to figure out what size bolt they were tightening" but they had an "official bolt tightener" that almost had the touch.

I said almost because when we tried to remove the nuts on one part we broke about 25% of them because they were too tight. The guy must have learned from Steve Jelf "tighten then until just before they break" for that size. :-)


My boss asked me what I learned in China and my reply was "Don't assume anything."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 12:52 am:

Print the image below on a label and attach it to the scale of your torque wrench. Tighten the hub nuts to just before "Kinda Tight". :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 10:38 am:

That's hilarious, Ken !!!


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