Motoring a Generator

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Motoring a Generator
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 01:34 pm:

I've been working on a generator.
New brushplate insulators, brushes, bearings, turned commutator, cut mica, and checked everything I can think of to check.
Set brushplate per the black book and Ken Kopsky.
It motors nicely but won't charge.
I have a cutout on it but if I can get it to work I'll get a John Regan VR.
I admit to being electrically challenged, but with the book and help from here I think I should be able to make it work.
Any suggestions beside using it for a boat anchor as was suggested here a couple days ago?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 03:27 pm:

I have a couple that will motor and will not put out even if you wave a 100 dollar bill in front of them.Something is wrong in the armature.You will have to send it to someone for overhaul.Not much way around it. For some reason these things are kinda faint at heart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 05:04 pm:

Mack, that was hilarious! I'm still laughing. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 05:13 pm:

Bob - have you adjusted the position of the brush bridge? There are 4 screws in the end cap of the generator. They holds the brush bridge. Retract the third brush and have the spring keep the brush retracted. Then loosen the 4 screws and apply +6V to the terminal and negative to house. Turn the brush bridge back and forth until the motoring stops. There may be an interval where that happens - position in the middle of that interval. Tighten the 4 screws and put the 3rd brush back in position. Check if it is motoring now. It should.

Now see if it charges.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 05:31 pm:

The only time I have seen this happen when all else is good, is when the generator hadn't been Polarized.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 05:51 pm:

Michael and Fred,
I made the adjustment you describe per the black book and I polarized it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 06:20 pm:

Hey, leave me out of it. :-)

Do you have a test stand or testing on the car?

Did you test the armature? A generator will motor even with a bad armature. Motoring only verifies the field coils work. Shorted or open coils on the armature can't be checked by simply testing continuity between commutator segments.

Apply pressure to the brushes one at a time and see if it charges. The springs could be weak. Did you seat the brushes? Did the brushes move freely in the holders? How did you reinstall the brush holders after replacing the insulators?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 06:43 pm:

Ken...I apologize for dragging you in to this!
Testing on car.
Didn't test the armature.
Springs seem stiff enough.
Seated the brushes.
Brushes are free in their holders.
Pop riveted the brush plate assy back together.
Sounds like I need an armature.
Thanks everybody for your help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 06:58 pm:

Bob,

When I did mine, I took the armature to a generator shop to have it tested. It only took him a minute or two and it doesn't seem like he even charged me. The rest, I could do myself. A professional might consider my shadetree rebuild.....well.....shadetree, but the dang thing "gens" and has now for several years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 07:25 pm:

Yeah, the armature needs to be tested on a growler but don't give up on it yet. Remove the field wire connected to the ground brush and lift the third brush off the commutator. Measure continuity between the open field wire and case ground. There should be NONE. If your meter/light shows continuity, the circuit is grounded. Disconnect the other field wire attached to the third brush. Test the third brush holder and the field coils separately to find which is grounded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 07:29 pm:

Good idea Hal.
I like shadetree!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, August 10, 2013 - 07:37 pm:

Forgot to mention; Are the brush holders tight? If they rock, they may short out at the back side of the brush plate. There's not much clearance on the back side of the plate to the rear cover when assembled. A 6-32 pan head screw will sort to the case if the brush holder wasn't drilled and tapped straight. Don't ask how I know that. I suspect a pop-rivet has less clearance.


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