After a very loud noise last weekend while i hit the brake pedal..i remove the axle and take it apart.
I found a lot of metal pieces:
But i dont find from where these parts are ???
I found some damaged Boltheads:
But this is not enough material for all this smal parts. The washers are not babbit they are brass and the steel washers are also in place.
I found some scratches at the differntial housing and in the axle housing:
Where can i get some "new" or very good differential housing parts (they are not available at Macs / Langs ...). What do you think i have to do?
Thanks a lot
You need new bronze thrust washers, probably pins that hold the steelies, ring gear bolts, safety wire and a gasket set.
Yes, he may need those items, but what's the broken up part? Look at the shape of the pieces. It's obviously not a thrust washer.
I believe this failure didn't happen to Michael last weekend,... but gradually over a period of time during his drives.
Loose pieces of Babbitt broke off circulated in the churn. The "damage" to the carrier may have happened earlier in history, maybe a replacement used in that axel ? Scratches inside the axel housing indicates failure of the thrust washer on the ring gear side of the carrier.
No pics of the ring & pinion gears, or bearings, what's their condition ?
You can get the spare parts here:
Neil can also repair your car or the axle assembly for you. He has one or two extra parts - LOL!
Worth a visit if you have time - Neil's place is a destination every Model T enthusiast will find marvelous.
Here's a look at Neil's place 3 years ago when I visited:
Those small broken up pieces are the pinion bearing sleeve.
Don't ask me how I know this. Actually, I had this happen on our T about a year ago. My differential parts were ok, but one of those pieces lodged between the ring and pinion and the result was the next weakest part broke - The end broke off of the axle shaft and the wheel fell off.
Take your driveshaft apart and post pictures of what you find. My bet is the pinion bearing sleeve as mentioned above.
I believe Keith has the answer. Those sleeves are very brittle and prone to breaking. When they do come apart, the pieces end up in the rear end, often after a trip through the ring & pinion gears.
That's what I suspected. The pieces are obviously not from a thrust washer ("The washers are not babbit they are brass and the steel washers are also in place."), but from something tube-shaped like the pinion bearing inner sleeve. I certainly wouldn't replace it with a new one. I'd use the Fun Projects bearing instead.
I would think the pinion and ring gears should be examined. If it is in fact the sleeve - and it does appear to be - then i dont see how it got into the rear-end without coming through the pinion gear and likely doing harm. But I'not sure the carrier should need to be replaced if it isn't cracked.
Any chance the spider gears and axle gears saw any of this?
Michael, I know you are in Germany, but Chaffin's in California is the place to get your differential parts.
Why would Michael prefer to have Chaffin's parts shipped from California rather than Great Britain? Neil sells a full line of Glen Chaffin's reproduction rear end parts, as well as any other reproduction parts, along with a fantastic selection of original parts.
I disassembled the drive shaft and....you are right. The sleeve of the lower bushing ist totally broken. Unbelievable how this can go into the rear axle housing without making more damage.
Now i will order modern bearings for the drive shaft at Langs:
What do you think? What other parts do i need for the driveshaft?
The rear axle will get new pinion gear and the great gear, new thrust washers etc. Only the bearings are original and i will use them. Maybe new sleeves for the bearings in the axle houses?
It may be cheaper to get parts from England, but you should know that Lang's (and others I assume) have MANY used parts that they don't have listed in their catalog. Give them a call when you know what you need and ask if they have that part. That way you can compare total costs including shipping.
You should look at changing the upper bushing in the drive shaft tube while you have it all apart. With the modern bearing setup you will no longer be using that bushing to set/control pinion depth so you will not have to face it. But while you have it all apart it might be wise to replace it.
I agree with Steve about the front bushing. It's less than $10, so why not?
There are two versions of the modern opinion bearing. The 2587PB2 costs $11 less than the 2587ADJ2. I've been told by a VERY, VERY, VERY reliable source that it's just as good.
On the axle bearings and sleeves, I'd go by what Glen says in the book.
Michael, do not use the modern needle bearing in place of the drive shaft bushing. The drive shaft is not hard and the needle bearing will tear it up. The bushing is just fine and will last many years.
Just to be clear this is what I would use
I've purchased a couple of the modern pinion bearings directly from Fun Projects and been very pleased. In conversation with John Regan, the only significant advantage to the adjustable version is that it gives some folks a warm fuzzy feeling to have that level of control. The 4 I've installed were the non-adjustable versions and the "standard" shim set was right on with no need to mess with the other shims provided. Maybe I was just lucky but I think it was more about a properly designed product that works as intended.
I don't buy all that much stuff (being thankful here) but prefer to purchase from the person who makes the product when I can. No offense to Langs, Chaffins, Antique Auto Ranch or others, I just prefer to buy direct when I can.
I have installed a few of the modern pinion bearings and like the non-adjustable one the most. Like Walt I was able to get the gear mesh right just with paper shims between the bearing housing and the rear axle center housing.
Thanks a lot.
So i will order a modern bearing for the drive shaft (at the end)
and i hope i understand this correct, no modern bearing for the driveshaft near the U-Joint.
Here i have to use the bushing:
Is that correct?
Yes, that'll work fine, I think.
What did your ring gear and pinion look like after this breakdown?
If the differential housing wasn't bent when the sleeve parts went through the gears, maybe you can reuse them? The small dents on the outside wouldn't cause any problems - but there's a risk the holes for the axle gears are worn or the flange for the ring gear may be bent.. when you have half of the rear axle assembled and measure the pinion to ring gear backlash you can also measure with the dial indicator if the ring gear runs straight - there are a few pictures in this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/78571.html?1232164022
I think you've had bad luck and gone through the most common causes for catastrophic breakdowns in a T by now, so after this repair your roadster should be reliable for thousands of more kilometers
All parts are ordered at Langs, hope UPS is fast to germany.
Now is cleaning time for all those "greasy" and "oily" parts... not the best job - smile