Can you identify this distributor?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Can you identify this distributor?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Tauno Williams on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 07:37 am:

My father had our Model-T engine's rebuild a few years ago. He passed away and I inherited the car. There is no documentation as to what anyone did when they worked on the car.

I need to identify this distributor. it is not turning correctly - if you look the gear that goes on the end of the camshaft seems to have two flat spots on either side. Can that possibly be correct intended?





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Tauno Williams on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 07:39 am:

Looks like an image got lost on upload, here is the entire distributor.



Any advice is very welcome. I really need to find a replacement gear ASAP so we can make an upcoming event.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 07:47 am:

I think the one you have is a Bosch distributor with a drive assembly made by Ralph Reeder. Ralph passed away years ago. Not sure if anyone has parts. The gears strip out if they are not lubricated on a regular basis. Best to pack the next set in grease on assembly.

You can get one of these:

http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TTP&Product_C ode=T3161&Category_Code=m


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 08:45 am:

Do you mean it's skipping on the short teeth? Or do you mean it's turning ccw? A lot of modern aftermarket disturbutors for Ts are made to turn ccw, backwards. See the arrow on the case? If it's turning backwards, you need to verify the rotor is aligned with the cap when the points open.

That disturbutor head was popular with T aftermarket because it has no vacuum advance. Its original fit was 1950s 36hp VW van, and one lobe is 3 degrees retarded from the others.

That gear looks intentionally flatted for a wrench. Are you sure it uses that part of the gear? Maybe it's on backwards?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Tauno Williams on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 06:32 am:

I doesn't turn, I can roll the engine over with the crank and the distributor doesn't turn. Then a few revolutions later it will turn a little bit.

I'll have to fiddle with it some more. But getting an entire unit on order just-in-case seems unavoidable [and expensive solution too].

Knowing if the gear is 'backwards', etc... would require access to some @&*^@&*^&*@$&*@ documentation. Or even just a photo of the original gear. Holy crap, the suppliers, and the manufacturers, are @&*@^&@ INCOMPETENT! Even if it is a great product - where can I download the installation instructions? Did it come with any? I've contacted two shops that sell them - no response.

Sorry. Just frustrated by the scattered, thin, and piece-meal availability of information. If you aren't in an area with a readily available bearded old wizard it seems like you are rather screwed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 07:22 am:

The two flat spots on either side of the gear are supposed to be there. That is how you tighten the gear to the camshaft. Your picture of the gear is rather fuzzy - maybe there is nothing wrong with it?

The main problem with these distributors - or any Model T distributor - is that there are a dozen or more different ones, and if the gear strips you can't normally find one easily. That gear must be packed in grease, or it fails in a short time. It's hard to convince people to do this until after they are riding back to the hotel on a vulture wagon.

It's also a really good idea to carry a spare coil, points, and condenser. Those items collectively cost around $40. Better than paying a $175 tow fee on a Sunday when you have better things to do, or riding the vulture wagon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 07:51 am:

Just because I can.... ws

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2mczmf5.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/2nbzq8l.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/33ktdad.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/wgp4i0.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/90oxmc.jpg[/IMG]

According to Chaffins, this is the LAST spare gear on earth. That was the one piece of my equation that was missing and it cost more than the new distributor (used, but never installed) from a swap meet... ws


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 08:00 am:

More info... ws

[IMG]http://i42.tinypic.com/eq302w.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/2r7m2b8.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/27xgjh4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/hsov9v.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/mt3rc9.jpg[/IMG]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 08:06 am:

I don't want to start the age-old argument, but, before you spend the money on another distributor, check and see what you would need to do to run on coils without a distributor. I've got distributors in both my speedsters, and T's that run on mag with coils, but, the one I drive the most has no magnets, 12V bat and runs on coils. After any of my T's sit for a few months (I can still get nonethanol gas) they'll still start, but, I practically always have to fiddle with the distributors to get them started--either filing points, cleaning wire connections or something! The other T's start and go!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 09:52 am:

Adam,

I'll share a story, a true story, about an 'inheritance' and the emotional legacy to 'keep it the way it is'. Actually has to do with a distributor at that.

My F-I-L and I always had different views to T's. He set up and ran his his way...me mine. He was a tinkerer who tinkered until he found his goal...me, I always was systematic and only then tinkered for a 'fine tune' on something. We went along near 40 years that way. My cars ran, so did his. Mine had more power than his, mine handled better than his, it was never a competition just the facts and he said 'who cares'.

He passed away in December of 11 and left his coupe, dist. equipped, to my son. My cars are all coils and timers...see where this is going?

The car also knew he passed and decided to go nuts when he died, for the first time in 40 years refusing to start at the funeral home. The dist. system had apparently been held together with grease and dust! He never touched it in that 40 years.

So I say to my son...no problem, there are enough spares at my house to turn it back into a coil/timer arrangement several times over...even have a complete built up coil box with coils ready to go and new timers in a box! Take us maybe an hour max...you'll be running good as new!

NO THANKS DAD, I WANT TO KEEP IT THE SAME AS GRANDPOP.

Son got it in Dec 11...remember that. Son is great with his hands and mechanics by the way. Gears were just cogs..all the linkage was wallowed...the cap had floating contacts...the rotor had a wobble...the distributor shaft would move up and down...see where this is going?

Determined kid...worked thru the linkage nice...found a replacement like new point set...the brown phenolic parts turned out elusive to even find and when found Ka-ching. By last summer I said...maybe coils for now and sort out later if you want a distributor? Maybe we just buy a clip-on kit for now, who knows with the stash we just might someday need a quick ignition anyway? No thanks Dad...g-pop kept it running, so can I!

He yanks it out from time to time, it runs but not well, or better said 'run with confidence' no matter what he does...

He called me the other day now 20 months later...hey Dad...about that clip-on...I've already spent more than a clip-on to keep this thing running...but you know...there comes a time...whose clip-on would you recommend! I'll change it out, come back an revisit this original somewhere in the future.

So that's the story...you may be faced with the exact same outcome. Others will say to perservere and you will win and they are right, but there is that time and disappointment factor until you get there. Heaven knows but even I've been known to dump 200 hours into something that would have be a cheap replacement later repro part but my own view is what was 200 hours?

Good luck, hope you find the solution...even if a vendor comes up with the parts you need be prepared to 'fit' them and not just assemble them when they arrive. Clip-on modern kits are not cheap by any means but it does solve 'the problem' for now...you can always go back...and sometimes, just sometimes, 'newbies' get too frustrated and decide to set things aside with a get-round-to-it. 'sometimes' that 'get round to it' takes 40 years! Enjoy it now...:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 01:07 pm:

Distributors can be very reliable, and dirt cheap to maintain.

The problem is that Model T charging systems are normally very unreliable. Any ignition that depends solely on battery power is not as reliable as the original Ford system, regardless of how reliable your charging system might be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 01:15 pm:

Adam,

The gear you show is stripped. Yes, there are supposed to be two flats, which you've got, but one side of the gear has got the teeth stripped off.

The distributor head is a Bosch 009. To me at least, they don't seem to live long in a T. I've never used one, but I've seen a lot of really worn out ones from short term use on a T.

All that being said, rather than put a new gear on a used/used-up distributor. It might be a good idea to just buy a new distributor set-up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 01:18 pm:

Here is what you need:

http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TTP&Product_C ode=T3161&Category_Code=m

Plug it in and go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 02:00 pm:

**The problem is that Model T charging systems are normally very unreliable.** Tongue in cheek, I hope!

After four years, two national tours, 4 regional tours, many local tours, weekly outings and in general several thousands of miles in our '19, I've yet to have an issue with the charging system. I must be very lucky if it's not normal!

I'd check to see if there's an output at the magneto (jack the rear up, pull the plugs and crank the engine by hand while someone does the "bulb" test on the mag post), and (hopefully) if there is, ditch the distributor and put the ignition back to original.

In any event, good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 03:11 pm:

Scott,

Indeed you are very lucky. More than likely your good fortune is the result of excellent restoration and maintenance of your charging system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 03:36 pm:

It is mere mechanical stuff. Once a Fun Projects regulator is installed, the T charging system is on a par with the majority from the 1930s to the mid-1960s when alternators became almost universal.

This should put one more Old Wife's Tale to bed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Tauno Williams on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 06:08 pm:

"ex trooper" thanks allot for your images, that is very helpful. It is nice to have this-is-what-it-is-supposed-to-look-like as a benchmark.

The magneto on this T expired a long time ago and was subsequently removed, the only thing on the flywheel are oil slingers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 08:22 pm:

It's a Bosch.......I know that trademark well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 08:29 pm:

Rats......fergot da pic.......

trademark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Moorehead on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 08:40 pm:

I have had a Texas T/ VW distributor on the Huckster for 11 years now. It can sit a day or a month or two and starts very easily. I have used the same points and cap all these years without issue. The condenser and coil are all that old as well. The car has had nearly 9,000 miles put on it and it still starts very easily and runs very well. I am not bragging or promoting distributors versus coils. I am just saying that this has been a very trouble free, 12 volt set up and I anticipate it to continue that way for a long time to come.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 09:54 pm:

The distributor might have the most value on a VW website.

This is from a VW website.

VW Distributor Information

Beetle 1949-December 1953 * 25HP to Eng 1-695 281

Distributor: VW 211-905-205E, Bosch VJR 4 BR 8/1 (0231 129 019) > 211-905-205F, VJR 4 BR 25/1 (0 231 129 010) > 126-905-205 (0231 178 009)
Can Use:
Points: 01 001
Condensor: 02 170
Rotor: 1237 332 072 (NLA) - Can use 04 008
Cap: 03 019
Coil: 00 001 (Blue Coil: 00 016)
Vacuum Can: None
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC Static
Advance/Retard Range: Unknown

Bus & Pickup Mar 1955-1959 * 36HP

Distributor: VW 211-905-205E, Bosch VJR 4 BR 8/1 (0231 129 019) > 211-905-205F, VJR 4 BR 25/1 (0231 129 010) > 126-905-205 (0231 178 009)
Can Use:
Points: 01 001
Condensor: 02 170
Rotor: 1237 332 072 (NLA) - Can use 04 008
Cap: 03 019
Coil: 00 001 (Blue Coil: 00 016)
Vacuum Can: None
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC Static
Advance/Retard Range: Unknown


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