New club member, New T owner

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: New club member, New T owner
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Goodheart on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 10:40 am:

Hello Everyone, This is my first posting.My car is a 1919 touring ? The engine serial number reveals a March 1919 manufacture date.
The body is 1926-27. The car was put together by my Father-in-law in the early 1980s. I remember he bought the engine and most chassis parts together. He had no frame and no body.
I am not sure what year the frame is but he got one somewhere. Also got the body parts from various sources.
The car sat in his garage from 2002 - 2012. I eventually moved it to my garage last fall. The engine was set up. But eventually got it freed up. Got it started and now am driving it.It is registered in NY as a 1919. I have a 1919 touring body that I will be putting on the car. I will be asking for advice as I get started.
I am not sure what year the frame is or how to tell. Were there different widths ? The body was bought in about 1989 as a 1919. Is there a good way to verify the year of the body.
The body is in good condition, it will probably need some wood replaced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 10:44 am:

Welcome William. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 10:45 am:

We can help ID your various components if you post Pictures. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 11:15 am:

The body of a 27/26 has different fastening points from all the earlier years, thus it's hard to put it on an earlier chassis - you have to add and/or move body brackets plus do something special at the rear crossmember - the earlier frames has a narrower rear crossmember.

Here is a drawing showing the 26/27 frame: http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatalog/Tech/FrameDiagram1926-27.pdf
And here's a 1909-13 frame drawing (body fastening points are the same up through 1925 model year): http://www.funprojects.com/pdf/FPIframe.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 11:21 am:

As the saying goes, welcome to the affliction. The encyclopedia lists some frame features that can pin yours down to within a year or two.

1913-1920
Initially the same as the 1911 chassis. About January 1913 two additional rear body brackets were added for the Touring body, under the rear door ahead of the rear seat. These brackets were used only in 1913 and only on the Touring bodies. Longer rear cross-member, beginning about 271,425 (May 1913), eliminating the forged body brackets. Early rear cross-members were relatively flat across the top surface; not raised as in the later versions. While using the same parts, holes were added for the new front body brackets in mid-1916, and for the battery bracket, starter switch, and battery cable support beginning in 1919. Beginning about March 19, 1919, the “Ford” logo began to be imprinted on the front cross member.
1921-1925
Same as earlier but pressed-steel running board brackets replaced the riveted-in-place forgings used earlier. The holes used for the forged brackets continued at least until 1923. Beginning in June 1920 the front cross-member was made of heavier steel.
In 1925 the hand-brake quadrant was changed. The previous quadrants were held with four rivets while the new one was held with just two. The two-rivet type continued until the end of Model T production.
1926-1927
Rear cross-member much longer to accommodate new body and fenders. The rear cross-member was a simple pressed channel in early production, then was made with a stronger flanged design. In early calendar 1926 heavier steel was used for increased strength. Previous frame members were made of .125-inch steel. A letter to chassis suppliers, dated February 28, 1926, specified the metal to be the same as the truck chassis (Type “L” steel, .180-.200 inches thick). The front cross-member had added brackets to support the fenders.


Here's a link for all the new T guys: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 11:42 am:

And, as Jim says, if you post pictures of the body from several angles the experts will soon ID it within a year or two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Goodheart on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 11:52 am:

Thanks for all the info. I will get some pictures of the body out in the next day or so. Also a picture of the car as it exists now. The interior is "rough". Seats from a school bus are bolted to the frame. It is a non starter car, magneto is not working. I am using a 6 volt battery. Car starts with a few cranks. I did buy 4 new coils in order to get it to start the first time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 12:05 pm:

William, you couldn't make a better move than this forum. These guys will jump to the chance to help a newbie. I have experienced it myself with amazement and gratitude. A special surprise comes down the road when they introduce themselves to you at a car show or event. I recently joined the "nicest people in the world"...Model T owners and have yet to regret one minute. I know they like me because they rapidly become comfortable reminding me just how much I don't know~ Its all good ! HAH !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 01:00 pm:

A year or two? Come on Steve. It seldom takes them more than a couple of hours.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 01:56 pm:

William, 1919 was the change over year when "electrics" such as starters and generators were offered on the Model T. My late 1919 has all the new fangled electric stuff! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Goodheart on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 04:45 pm:

A picture of my car as it is now. Then two pictures of the body I have been told is a 1919.
What does anyone else think about the body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Saitta on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 05:44 pm:

I need help changing a light bulb. MTFCI and MTFCA are great to join. Wonderful publications. Both have forums to ask/find answers to questions. MTFCA's is superior. Local Model T clubs are fun and members are very helpful. Take local tours to start. Judy and I have even graduated to 3-4 day ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 06:07 pm:

William

First two pictures seem to be a 26-27 body, the fenders are earlier 17 to 23 with a low radiator shell on a high radiator. Second pictures are 17 to 22 body low cowl. Just my guess, Others will
pin point the dates better. These are two different bodies?

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 10:21 pm:

I agree with Bob on the first two pics. The second body appears to be a 1917-19, since it has the 5-piece rear section. I believe that went away with the coming of the '20 model year. A '19 body should have a steel instrument panel, which is not present. That early body looks pretty solid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Goodheart on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 07:50 am:

Yes, a local T enthusiast has told me the body in the first picture is '26 - 27', but the engine serial number is from March 1919. If the other body is about 1919 I want to put it on the car instead of the '26 -'27 body. I know I will have to have the gas tank under the seat, I also need a low radiator.
Would all 1919 bodies have had a steel instrument panel or only those with a starter. My 1919 engine and transmission are not set up for a starter.
Will the 1919 body go on the same frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 08:49 am:

Whether the body fits will depend on which frame you have. If it's a 26-27 frame, which I'd expect under that 26-27 body, your choices are to adapt the body and/or frame, or get an earlier frame. The latter choice would be easier, and probably cheaper. The year of the engine is irrelevant in this choice. It will fit any T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 09:11 am:

The lack of frame brackets for 26/27 fenders is an indication you really have a somewhat modified earlier frame, made to fit the 26/27 body. We would need more pictures of the underside - of the running gear, the frame, the running board brackets and the body fastening areas to see what you've got. Your older style front spring/engine mount in combination with the more modern under axle wishbone fits the 1919-20 timeframe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 09:27 am:

It's hard to tell from the picture, but your rear axle has small brake drums and what looks like 30x3.5" tires, would fit in for a 1919. The front wheels looks more like 21x4.50 demountables from a 1925-27 Ford.

T parts are plentiful & the body is usually the hardest part to restore - looks like youv'e got a couple of good bodies there - some extra chassis parts & an engine & suddenly you've got two projects :-)

These cars multiply, you know. Get an extra frame to mount the 1919 body on while you restore it - I would have driven the '19/'26 as long as possible before disassembly, there's a risk the downtime will be lengthy, better to have fun while collecting stuff & restoring the body. It's almost too easy to disassemble, assembling usually takes much too long time..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 09:32 am:

William could it be that the earlier body you have pictured actually goes with the chassis that your later complete 26-27 body sits on?
You mentioned that your 1919 engine and transmission is not set up for a starter. By the pic it also has the earlier crank handle on it.

Take a look at the earlier body (1919)? and see if the front seat heel panel has a hole or no hole for a starter button in it. IF it does not have the hole for the starter button that would be a good indicator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Goodheart on Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 05:02 pm:

It has been about a week since I responded to the answers to my questions about Frames and Body years. I have been busy with family events, yard work, etc. I want to thank everyone for their helpful suggestions. Thank You to Roger Karlsson for the links to the body drawings, they are great. Also to Roger's suggestion that I look for another frame and have 2 projects. Very interesting but at age 72 I don't need two projects, I will be lucky to get one done. To John Kuehn, I looked at that early body and it does have a hole for the starter button.
I am sure the early body did not go with the frame because the body was bought in 1989 or 90, the frame was in use with the '26 - '27 body in 1983. The early body was bought in Syracuse, NY, I remember going with my Father in Law to pick it up. His health got bad right after that and the body was never used.
I can handle the mechanical work myself but will have to hire someone to do the body restoration. I will post pictures now and then. I have taken some measurements on the frame and it appears to match up with the dimensions on the early frame drawing. I will put in a classified ad for other parts I need, windshield, gas tank, coil box, radiator, etc.


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