The radiator situation is on hold while I wait to hear back from the radiator pro I consulted by email. So this morning's alternate project was a new fuel line. Instead of running the line inside the frame rail, I decided to try this.
This avoids rising heat from the exhaust pipe, and is over two inches from it at the closest point.
If I have to take it out for any reason, this is an easier location than behind the bolted-in wooden block.
I like that idea. Will try it on the coupe this afternoon.
Should work, If you get any vapor lock it'll be easy to try some other route (like below the hogshead to pan flange?)
I can spy with my little eye - a missing nut in your top photo
Thanks for the idea Steve. It worked great. And timely as that is what I planned to do today.
I mounted mine a little higher as I was afraid a dip in the line might cause trouble. Mine is 1" form the exhaust pipe but should be OK.
The sediment bowl in my coupe is kind of tight.
Good eye, Roger. The nut's missing because the threads are, too. Time for a new radius rod.
It looks WAY too neat and pretty. I don't like it!
You shouldn't have to worry about fuel line freezing, even on the coldest Midwestern days. Lets hope you don't spring a leak, though.
Can you weld a piece of threaded rod to the old radius rod?
I like the routing path under and away from the exhaust, but the solid clamp by the hogs head could cause problems in the future. With all the twisting and such from a T, I think some type of a guide, or just a support, instead of a tight clamp might be a better way to go.
Kep, in my experience threaded rod is inferior to old Ford steel.. Since it's almost impossible to find rear radius rods over here, I would have rethreaded the end for a smaller nut - should be strong enough, but Steve has a few extra rear ends to pick from
Too close to the exhaust pipe for my taste. I've fought that problem before. Mine did ok until you ran it steady down the road for 20-25 miles then it would quit. As you raise the hood, scratch your head and try to figure out what's wrong, it would cool down enough to go down the road a few more miles before it died again. Rerouted the fuel line and solved the problem.
In your third picture, the angle of the floor shelf compared to the angle of the bend of the exhaust pipe, indicates that there is a whole lot of room above the current position of the pipe to locate it high enough to allow plenty of room for a revised bend in order to eliminate the problem of the exhaust pipe and fuel line occupying the same space. The exhaust pipe could angle off the manifold at the present angle for 2 inches, then be bent to travel horizontally for 12", then down again and back to resume it's original route under the car to the muffler. This would allow those of you with under the seat fuel tanks, much more leeway in routing your fuel line to the carb. Jim Patrick
In a pinch for quick fix (or trouble shooting)of fuel line vapor locks an old school (and usually works) trick is clip on 4 or more wooden clothes pins around what you think is the offending area .It wicks off the extra heat, 99% of the time it WORKS!
Since wood is a bad wick for heat, I think what the clothespins really does is creating turbulence in the air down under the car, perhaps resulting in a better cooling of the fuel line line when the car is moving?
For my trip that's the way I routed my fuel line, BUT:
-I purchased some cheap "ceramic woven sleeve" (similar to exhaust wrap) from company in CA which fitted the standard fuel line perfectly. This eliminates any chance of vapour lock even if the fuel line passes very close to the exhaust system.
-I see your fuel line goes down then up, on my car I did it without the fuel line going uphill on the way to the carby. Even with less than a gallon in the tank my car would run. Looks to me your exhaust system goes down too low.
On you radius rod: if you don't want to replace, you could weld a good quality grade 5 or better bolt (cut off the head) to the rod.
If you don't trust your welding, you might try some 7024 rod. Its called a "drag rod" and can make an adaquate welder out of a poor one. You don't have to worry about holding the proper gap.
PS Thanks for the shop tour!
Liquid seeks its own level. You could run the fuel line down to an inch off the ground and back up to the carburetor and it would make absolutely no difference in running the engine. As long as the tank is higher than the carburetor and the fuel line, the fuel will flow.
I would remove the clamp to the hogshead. You need to safety wire the two lower bolts, and put castle nuts and cotter pins on the top ones.
Like your idea. I would leave the clamp on the hogshead and put a piece of rubber on the fuel line so it can float inside the clamp - similar to the way the starter wire floats in it's clamp. Gets rid of the rigid hold on the fuel line.
Sorry I missed you at Iola. Maybe next year.
I'm not sure what you're saying is correct.
I could be wrong back, but when a liquid moves upwards it's working against gravity.
A liquid will move downwards without force/pressure, but will not move upwards without force/pressure.
If your fuel line has an upwards bend somewhere, the fuel may reach the carby depending on the bend and the level of fuel in the tank (the pressure), but the pressure the fuel reaches the carby will be less than if there were no upward bends in the fuel line.
This means your T will quit running earlier than if there were no upward bends in the fuel line.
Remember, the engine and the hogshead get very hot too and the heat could transfer through the clamp and heat up the fuel line. That, combined with the close proximity of the hot exhaust pipe next to and just above the fuel line and you have a very hot area at this one point between two very hot sources of heat.
Heat absorbing/blocking technology was developed for the space shuttle to keep it from burning up in the atmosphere. Technology which is available to us for this purpose. There is an exhaust heat shield available which claims to block 98% of the radiant heat generated by the exhaust pipe. May be just the thing to keep the fuel line from overheating, but I would still avoid clamping the fuel line to the hot engine with a steel clamp. Go to www.hawkinsspeedshop.com and type "exhaust wrap" in the search box to see the following heat shield material. Jim Patrick:
Yes, fuel on the upward slope is being pulled down by gravity. At the same time, fuel on the downward slope is being pulled equally by gravity. Net effect: zero. This assumes equal amounts of fuel (mass) on both sides of the low point. The side containing more mass for gravity to pull down (like the tank) wins. If a physics teacher wants to step in here and explain how I'm wrong, I'm ready to learn.
Maybe the pictures don't show it adequately, but in this arrangement the fuel line at its closest to the exhaust pine is 2.125" away from it. I've looked at two other T's to compare. One has the line in the traditional position, passing under the exhaust pipe and into the frame rail. Its closest point to the exhaust pipe is 1.25". The other has the line passing above the pipe by .75"! I've driven that last one on very hot summer days and never experienced vapor lock. I think that 2.125" under the pipe will be fine.
Larry noticed that on the ball cap I used the same bolts that were on there when I got the car. Pure ignorance. Now that I know, I'll put in the right kind. There's one of the reasons I love this forum.
My 1923 Touring / Pickup came to me with header wrap around 2-3 feet of the exhaust in the area under the floorboards. The wrap is clamped on the ends with ordinary hose clamps to keep it from unraveling. Seems to work well so far.
Constantine - I am hesitant to enter a discussion by two "T" guys with the experience that both you and Steve Jelf have, but here goes anyway:
Altho' the route Steve haw chosen for his fuel line is not exactly the recommended route, he has maintained one feature that I believe is important. That is that somewhere between the fuel tank and the carburetor, there should be one single "low point". That is to enable any air bubbles in the fuel line to rise and work themselves out of the fuel line, either toward the carburetor or toward the fuel tank. It makes no difference where that one single low point is between the fuel tank and carburetor.
Also, as far as any effect gravity might have, it might help to think of siphoning water through a garden hose. As long as there is a SOLID column of water in the garden hose, and as long as the outlet end of the hose is lower than the inlet end, water will flow.
Hope this helps,........harold
I'm no physics teacher but this is how it works. Funny thing about the gas law (which applies to hydraulics too) that states the outlet pressure will be the same as the inlet pressure. The pressure will be about 1psi per foot of liquid above the outlet. Flow is a different matter but the flow is so low that angles, slopes and fittings restrict the flow only minutely at such a low pressure.
I better make a correction before I get raked over the coals. The pressure will actually be less the 1/2 psi per foot. Sorry.
Even if Steve ran the line to the rear axle, wrapped it around 7 times and then back to the carb it wouldn't matter.
Okay, thanks. Point taken, good to know.
LOL Constantine.......after everything YOU went through if gas WASN'T going to flow you, of anyone, would.......
One of the toughest as well as fun days of the trip was driving from the Ethiopian border with Sudan to the city of Wad Madani on the Blue Nile. A distance of about 400km or 240 miles. It was tough because the temperature was around +45C or +113F. By amazing chance I was spotted by a North Sudanese Australian guy from Melbourne the previous day on the road to the border. Only a couple a hundred people from North Sudan live in Melbourne! His home town was Wad Madani so with front windscreen folded and top down as always we set off. I kept a close eye on the Moto-meter to make sure the car didn't overheat. The dessert terrain was flat luckily and the leak from my Berg prototype brass flat tube radiator wasn't too bad but nevertheless I had to drive a bit slower than normal for the car not to overheat...the T was carrying a lot of weight don't forget. Anyway, after we took a break to allow my blood nose to stop the carby started making a regular popping noise and would lose power momentarily. We stopped but I couldn't find any problem so we kept going. Eventually, we got to a petrol station and I filled up. I put in about 35 litres! I was driving with a less than a gallon in the tank. Always thought my special non-upwards bending fuel line helped the car run with so little fuel in the tank...seems it played no part; there you go.
By the way, that day a consumed more than 10 litres of water, soft drinks, juice etc. but was still very de-hydrated in the evening.
spelling error, last sentence should be:
By the way, that day I consumed more than 10 litres of water, soft drinks, juice etc. but was still very de-hydrated in the evening.
If the fuel line bent up above the level in the tank you would risk having no flow. If it bent downward it would only reduce the flow in relation to the friction of the flow in the line coupled to seeking its own level. So in an ideal world the fuel line would be fairly straight and level.
You could make your fuel line about 2 inches higher at the tank if you were to relocate the fuel shutoff valve to one end of the fuel tank at the bottom, so that the fuel shutoff is horizontal instead of vertical. This will definitely give you the downward flow to the carb you are all seeking and also allow you to go over the exhaust pipe. Jim Patrick
I have to call BOGUS on that one. Liquid seeks its own level. You could put in a pipe extending straight own under the tank and have the bulb and shutoff valve an inch off the ground, with the fuel line running back up hill all the way to the carburetor, and it would make absolutely zero difference in the flow of fuel, which is determined by the source (tank) being higher than the destination (carburetor).
Me thinks there is a wee bit of apples and oranges in the 'debate'.
IMHO Running a 'U' down under, Steve is right. Any gulp of air in the line will flow to either the carb or the tank. May need another inch or so of fuel in the tank to overcome line loss friction. It doesn't need a prime, it will find itself as long as there is fuel in the tank or the float opens(and why some find they run out of gas with 2" in the under the seat tank).
In an over the top facing 'U' (uphill run with a bump) there is one problem....it has to find a prime and hold the prime to do the same thing...provide flow.
That can work...until...and why the phrase 'vapor lock'. Get fuel to gas off or get an air bubble that forms at the high spot and it acts like a valve because the heat expands it to the point where the bubble pressure is higher than the head pressure from the fuel in the tank.
In both cases there is something secondary. Very little head pressure to begin with...usually very small inside diameter of the fuel line. Lot's of natural resistance to actual flow, but as long as something else is not at work to cause extra loss, it works and did so over 15 million times.
I don't follow the purist routing way either and I'm not saying that even I do it right, I've just been lucky, but I always set up for a straight downhill run from the potato to the carb in the front back plane, with a lazy wave going side to side in the other plane where the bulb end is more or less parallel to the frame, the front end parallel to the frame as it goes through the firewall...and under all circumstances I always seem to find 2" or so of clearance here as it passes over the exhaust. Never have had issue on any of the cars. I usually always have to cut an inch or so off of a stock replacement fuel line to do this. Yes, they are unsupported for the length of the run, but IMHO that wave takes care of any expansion/flexing needs. I also use the soft packing at both ends and never a ferrule. That too allows a little forgiveness.
Steve is correct. The pressure in the line will be constant through its length. Any routing that keeps 2" clearance from the exhaust pipe should work fine.