Model T Pan Rebuilding.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Model T Pan Rebuilding.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, August 14, 2013 - 11:06 pm:

I rebuilt a Pan this week and took some pictures.



I melted the old babbitt as It was cracked on both sides as normal.
I melted the old babbitt as It was cracked on both sides as normal.

I always put in a new crank bushing and spot welded it as the O.D. is a little smaller then Fords.
I always put in a new crank bushing and spot welded it as the O.D. is a little smaller then Fords.

I always weld up the old Rivet heads inside the Pan as they can leak around the rivet body.
I always weld up the old Rivet heads inside the Pan as they can leak around the rivet body.







Tap out the holes 3/8's fine.
Tap out the holes 3/8's fine.

3/8's Fine
3/8's Fine

3/8's Coarse
3/8's Coarse





The ball cap area was left 1/8th to far, a 3 pound lead hammer fixed that.
The ball cap area was left 1/8th to far, a 3 pound lead hammer fixed that.









This arm was Ok.
This arm was Ok.

This arm was not., it was off by 2 feet.
This arm was not, it was off by 2 feet.

The Crank Bushing was off by about 3/16's.
The Crank Bushing was off by about 3/16's.

I blasted Babbitt sealed area, nothing sticks to dirt.
I blasted Babbitt sealed area, nothing sticks to dirt.

Retinned the area.
Retinned the area.

Recoated with Babbitt.
Recoated with Babbitt.

The Pan is held in a 75 ton Wilson press so I can file the front end Babbitt, and chip at the Brazing flux.
The Pan is held in a 75 ton Wilson press so I can file the front end Babbitt, and chip at the Brazing flux.

Finshed Babbitt Job.
Finshed Babbitt Job.


The Pan will now be all sand blasted and owner will paint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 05:56 am:

Herm

great tutorial...and loved the part where it was off by two feet! Hilarious!

Thanks very much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Martel in Temperance MI on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 06:52 am:

Along this line.
Does anyone in Southeast Michigan or Toledo area, have a pan jig I could check/straighten a couple pans on?

Thanks for the pictures!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 10:59 am:

Chuck,

You might check with Joe Bell in Tiffin, OH. Not too far from you. Maybe he can help you out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 11:24 am:

I have one. I'm in Bluffton, Ohio. Just off I-75. 419-306-3966


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 11:26 am:

Herm, I find this very interesting. I have only casually checked my pan when I have had it apart. I am attempting to understand what is being done here. Looks like you are making sure that the attachments are secure to the pan, that the threads are OK, sealing the pan and priming.
Pic #1 Pan sitting on straightening bench
Pic #2 Did you do some welding on the seal area?
Pic #3 Weld in a new crank bushing
Pic #4 What is happening here?
Pic #5 Strengthening the Wishbone connection
Pic #6 Strengthening the Wishbone connection
Pic #7 Strengthening the side arm
Pic #8 Chasing threads
Pic #9 Chasing threads
Pic #10 Chasing threads
Pic #11 What is happening here?
Pic #12 Strengthening the drain baffle
Pic #13 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #14 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #15 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #16 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #17 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #18 Checking the arm alignment
Pic #19 Checking the arm alignment
Pic #20 Checking the crank alignment
Pic #21 Sealing the front dam to pan
Pic #22 Sealing the front dam to pan
Pic #23 Sealing the front dam to pan
Pic #24 Adjusting pan
Pic #25 Priming

In general, is this correct? Next time I have the pan off maybe I can do a better job. One other thing that I have learned from the recent posts about pan straightening is that the frame also has to be straight.
Thanks
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 11:37 am:

Herm - It looks like you're doing a very thorough job on rebuilding pans. Could you please tell us about how much it would cost us to have one done like this?

Thanks, Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 12:51 pm:

Herm, I find this very interesting. I have only casually checked my pan when I have had it apart. I am attempting to understand what is being done here. Looks like you are making sure that the attachments are secure to the pan, that the threads are OK, sealing the pan and priming.
Pic #1 Pan sitting on straightening bench
Pic #2 Did you do some welding on the seal area?
Pic #3 Weld in a new crank bushing
Pic #4 What is happening here?
Pic #5 Strengthening the Wishbone connection
Pic #6 Strengthening the Wishbone connection
Pic #7 Strengthening the side arm
Pic #8 Chasing threads
Pic #9 Chasing threads
Pic #10 Chasing threads
Pic #11 What is happening here?
Pic #12 Strengthening the drain baffle
Pic #13 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #14 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #15 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #16 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #17 What is happening with the tail?
Pic #18 Checking the arm alignment
Pic #19 Checking the arm alignment
Pic #20 Checking the crank alignment
Pic #21 Sealing the front dam to pan
Pic #22 Sealing the front dam to pan
Pic #23 Sealing the front dam to pan
Pic #24 Adjusting pan
Pic #25 Priming

In general, is this correct? Next time I have the pan off maybe I can do a better job. One other thing that I have learned from the recent posts about pan straightening is that the frame also has to be straight. "END QUOTE"
Thanks
Mike

Mike, I don't know what is going wrong with the Captions I am putting on the pictures that explains what the picture is about, but they are there, but as Chris said they were buried some where.

Chris, can you fix this again for me, and tell me what I have to do to fix it my self.

Herm.


Mike, we will see if Chris can fix some of this so I don't have to do all the finger punching again.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 01:10 pm:

I didn't realize, hope Chris can fix them, he's pretty good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 02:16 pm:

I fixed the captions.

Herm, I will send you an email showing how the captions should be input and will call you if need be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 02:31 pm:

That would be great Chris, and Thank's.

Herm. 515-546-4551


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 02:37 pm:

Mike, if there is anything else, just post.

Thanks Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 04:01 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 11:37 am:
Herm - It looks like you're doing a very thorough job on rebuilding pans. Could you please tell us about how much it would cost us to have one done like this?

Thanks, Keith"END QUOTE"

Keith, this one was 325.00, they are not all the same price, as it depends what it needs.

I done a 1909 pan a while back that was 600.00, and at that I didn't charge for all my time. They are like trying to make a rubber band stay in some form.

Most run 225.00, hard to estimate.

I should say we also take all the pan holes down below gasket level.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Zahorik on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 06:04 pm:

Thanks Chris and Herm for the captions. It's a little easier to understand now. On thing, I did not realize that the front seal dam (not sure if that is what it is called) was Babbitted to the pan. Any particular reason rather than welded or brazed? Also in the second picture where you say you melted out the Babbitt, did you do anything to where the seal goes, looks like some weld on the inner side, maybe just the picture?
Thanks
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 08:17 pm:

Good job on the pictures and steps.

If you type a description for the picture during the upload process, that description will show up when someone moves the mouse over the picture.

Like this:

Check the engine pan for cracks at the front mount.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 08:19 pm:

I think they used babbitt to save time.


did you do anything to where the seal goes, looks like some weld on the inner side, maybe just the picture? "END QUOTE"

Nope, just melted out the babbitt, and burnt up the R.T.V Permatex.

Thanks Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 08:21 pm:

Oh well, looks like that doesn't work on the forum any more either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 08:43 pm:

Ken, it works for me. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 09:48 pm:

Ken, I keep for getting to do the pointer thing.

It does work, but it don't stay long to read, unless I am reading at Dick, and Jane speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 10:11 pm:

I have been trying to find someone who has a pan jig as close to St. Louis as possible. Anybody know of someone?

Thanks,
Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 10:18 pm:

The description doesn't show up with IE10. It's the first time I noticed it missing. Doesn't work under "Compatibility Mode" either. Bummer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, August 15, 2013 - 10:29 pm:

Never mind. It works. I had compatibility mode turned off because of the small text. Where's my glasses? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 12:40 pm:

Herm, I sent you a PM.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Brancaccio - Calgary Alberta on Friday, August 16, 2013 - 01:03 pm:

This is for the comments above about the display of the picture description that you enter when uploading an image.

Definition and Usage
The required alt attribute specifies an alternate text for an image, if the image cannot be displayed.

The alt attribute provides alternative information for an image if a user for some reason cannot view it (because of slow connection, an error in the src attribute, or if the user uses a screen reader).

Note: Internet Explorer (prior version 9) displays the value of the alt attribute as a tooltip, when mousing over the image. This is NOT the correct behavior, according to the HTML specification.

Tip: To create a tooltip for an image, use the title attribute!
===============================================

So this is not the intended behaviour, but it has worked for many years because most people were using Internet Explorer in the past.

Also that's why it doesn't work in Chrome, or Firefox, or Mozilla, etc.


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