Anybody know when computers were first used in pickups?
My '96 Ford PU has been a big pain for 15 years now and it's going to the junkyard.
Gonna buy one with no computer.
We had a 92 Dodge D250 Diesel with the 12 valve engine and no waste gate on the turbo. It had a solid connection to the diesel fuel pump throttle system. But it was a rough riding fool due to the antiquated longitudinal sprung suspension and rigid front axle.
You can boost those older Cummins engines more than you can the new ones. Or at least at a lower cost. It got an honest 20 mpg while our 99 only gets 17. BUT and it is a big one, we have a Banks system on the 99 and we get 34 pounds of boost at a cost of $2200.
Since that picture was taken a few years ago we painted out the gray plastic with flat black paint and get loots of complements from passers bye..
1973 is computer free, but it's pretty tough for fuel mileage and finding parts.
In Dodge Cummings I think early 1998 were 12 valve and later 1998 were 24 valve computer controlled. Mine is an early one, more fuel efficient but plenty of power for me.
Jim...does your Dodge have a computer?
No computer in my early 98.
Steve has a good point about finding parts. Not a problem if you are only going to be local, but if you are on the road what then. I am thinking about going back to a gas burner. I have a 99 250 with the good old 7.3l and about 400,000 miles. But I also have an 08 F 350 6.4l that has had more trouble than all the other diesels (6) I have had put together. The problems have all been emission problems. Dan
I tow a sim trailer like Franks with my '04 Tahoe. I get 14 MPH on cross country trips going at or 5 MPH over the speed limit. With 144,000 miles it's never had anything to fix and this is the truth! Still has the Original Brake Pads!
I keep taking the wheels off to see if I had better change pads before a trip. Maybe next year?
It has a key switch start and requires no password..
My '78 Ford has no computer and I removed all the pollution control junk so it is pretty good for towing but the mileage is lousy. The 302 V8 has enough power to pull a T but it's way under powered for heavier trailering. My 2008 Expedition has a computer but I have had no issues with it in over 100,000 miles. In Florida I can get up to 14 mpg but in the hills it drops to a pitiful 8 mpg.
I would love to upgrade to a bigger tow vehicle, but I don't use it enough to justify it yet. My 01 Dakota with a 4.7 V8 pulls just fine for what I need. If I had a choice, I'd look for a mid 80s' ford to pull with.
What's the problem with yours, Bob ? 171,000 miles on mine and mostly trailer towing but I did have the original 460 rebuilt last year.
Mine's almost identical to your's, Steve.
460 and all. 90,000 and it's been troublesome since day one.
Now it just won't run and I'm tired of screwing with it.
So anybody know what's the newest truck I can look for with no 'puter?
I can't pinpoint an exact year, but I would say anything with a regular carb on it. No fuel injection, no computer. I would say mid 80's
The 70ís and 80ís Fords did have an electronic ignition control module,
(some with altitude control switches) that were problematic in the earliest
versions. I piggyback mounted a spare one on my 80 F150, so I could quickly
move the connector plugs, but as we all know when you go to that trouble the
original will last forever. (And it did)
I have a 2000 Toyota Tundra P/U with V8. Love the truck! No trouble to date. It has a computer but I have not had any problems, factory recall changed the Oxygen sensors and a trailer wiring harness. Previous P/U was a 75 Ford 3/4 ton with a 390 V8 and granny trans. Great tow truck but terrible fuel millage. It did not care if the trailer was there or not.....8-9 MPG Best! The Tundra gets 20-21 on the road at 60-65 MPH. With my large enclosed trailer....mileage drops to 11 MPH depending on driving conditions.
Must gear down on hills keeping the rev's up. The engine has dual over head cams and will really buzz. It's all in gearing.
I like the power of a Diesel.....just too costly to maintain and buy fuel for if you're using the P/U as a multi purpose vehicle. The frame on the Tundra is thicker and has more cross members compared to the same year Ford 150.
The Tundra is built in the U.S.A.
Good luck in finding the Truck of your dreams in a pre computer age P/U. The computer does have some advantages in fault isolation if you do have problems. Yes, it does take a scanner but this is the computer age like what we enjoy on the Model T form.
I have an '07 Chevy with a 5.3 L V8. I get 17 MPG normally and 9.5 MPG towing my extra height trailer.
Like Art said, 1973 was the first year Ford started modules in their light trucks, I think it was the beginning of job justification for college stupids. By 1988 all Ford light trucks were fuel infected. I'll take a carb and a distributor anytime. I have five vans, three half tons and two one tons, I traded off a 3/4 ton, nice truck, 300efi automatic, great on gas mileage, but no poop pulling a T uphill. I had to clock it's gas mileage with a calendar. One of the one tons is an ex-moving van with an attic, it was a local rental, 460efi and automatic, 20gal tank, this past Chickasha, I pulled 12,500 lbs. at 6mpg, every 100 miles a fuel stop, slow going. Never again. The other one ton is an ex-bus extended van, 460-4v and automatic. I pulled a JD B back from MT, 15mpg. Empty it is horrible on gas but loaded, it hums. All are American made and all are less than $15,000. As for the Tundra, it may be made in America, but follow the money, who benefits... To get back on subject any 70's or early 80's Ford light truck is an ok choice. The 390 fe family of engines needed some internal tweaking in later years to improve their power, their gas mileage still wasn't that good. As the years moved on the chassis stayed pretty much the same and the engines got better, I would go for a 90's Ford if that's your choice. As you probably figured out by now, I'm a Ford man to the bone. All the others will never be on my short list and foreign isn't even on the food chain. JMHO
I have an 08 GMC duramax Diesel 4x4.Gets 20-21 mpg highway,15-17 highway towing.More power than I will ever need and ZERO problems. Has been to Nebraska to pickup our Model T,and many trips up and down the coast when I was moving.Never missed a beat and very comfortable to drive.I am sure it has several computer but no issues at all.
For the died in the wool Ford and GM owner thinking that they are all made here. Wrong!....sorry for having to say that.....many small and major components are not made here. Yes, they are assembled here just like a Tundra....with U.S. labor.
I remember those ignition modules, Art - did the same piggy-back on my bought new 1977.
The Ford full size trucks have 75% US content, same as the Tundra. Dodge and Chevy/GM are at 67%. That's actually a big improvement for Ford. A couple of years ago they were at 60%. Reports are here: http://tinyurl.com/3g7g79y
I have just what you are looking for (or not).
'94 International DT466 turbo intercooled with a 10 speed. This a short wheel base single axle air ride rear with a "day cab". Low miles on the engine and trans. Even AC in the cab!!
OK you need a air ticket (for the brakes), but otherwise should be no big deal. The 10 speed is essentially a 5 speed with a splitter box on the back of the trans. So most of the time you drive it like a 5 speed with the option of 1/2 gears for the hills if you need it.
This is about the last of the mechanical DT466's
I guess tow vehicle means something differant to all of us but we pull 5'th wheels and once a year a doubble! If money was no object i would look in a rv park and see what the big boys use.Money is still scarce so we are using the 99 f-250 crew cab with the 7.3 and were happy! I've seen to many closed plants so no foren crapp espc if it won't haull a 5'er! Bud.
For cars and light trucks manufactured for sale in the US, computerized fuel management started about 1984 but it wasn't standardized or required. All that was required was the vehicle pass emission standards. Any car or truck with a DLC (Data Link Connector) has a computer. Whether it's gas or diesel. The connector was usually under the hood until 95-96 when OBDII standards made it mandatory that it be placed inside the cab with a standard connector. GM had a proprietary system until about 1994 while they were fighting the OBD standards.
I wouldn't buy a GM vehicle from 1984 to 95 unless you know someone with a factory tester.
I know for a fact that the 92-95 Dodge diesel has a computer with the connector under the hood. The connector is a SCI style. I know because I had to buy the adapter for my scan tool.
My 03 Dodge dually with a Banks module got 15mpg from FL to SC hauling my D-4 (total wt dozer & trlr=28K lbs) I've abused it like that ever since it was new--I'm on my 3rd clutch and 2nd trans, new injectors, etc. I've got a guy who works on nothing but Cummins Dodge trucks. He quickly diagnoses then repairs and never a problem with what he fixes. It now has been with that Dodge mechanic going on 3 weeks with a computer problem that's giving him fits. I also have Ford diesels and have had Chevs, but, they won't do all the things I've done with the Dodge. With all the things we expect of our trucks now days, I don't think we'll realistically be able to go back to a non computer tow vehicle. I met a guy who builds hot rods for a living and he uses crate engines with computers. I asked him why he used computers and he says that's how he gets over 300hp and over 20 mpg. My best tow vehicle for tag-a-long trailers is my RV with a 6cyl Cat engine. It can haul 2 T's in an enclosed trailer and get the same mpg as with no trailer--of course that's still only about 8.
I tow everyday
Currently I drive a 95' F350 with a 7.3 Powerstroke
It is my first direct injected diesel
Previously I only bought 89 - 94 Ford IDI trucks
because I like to be able to do my own maintenance
and repairs on the the road
I would strongly recommend a 1995 Ford 7.3 Powerstroke diesel early production (late 94' or early 95')
Very good dependable truck .....
I have to say that I Love my current truck and trailer set-up. a 24' trailer that weights 3300 lbs. I can put two cars in it and my truck still stays at 70 mph in 6th gear at 1750 rpm on the tach. It has plenty of torque to not shift down on hills. It just runs.
Before this I had a 2006 Ford F-250 with the power stroke engine. I Loved it but the neighbors were a little cranky because it was noisy.
my new t and trailer
My 2006 Dodge 2500 diesel is called an imported vehicle on the window sticker because US made content is below 50%. It has a Daimler Benz transmission made in Germany, body panels stamped in Mexico, many components from Mexico, China, and Canada. Assembled in Hamtramanck, Michigan.
It's been a fantastic vehicle with absolutely zero problems over 120,000 miles.
Besides our Tundra, I like pulling our Trailer on long distant tours with our 2006 Trail Light Motor home on a Work Horse chassis. It's powered with an 8.1 gas engine with Banks Headers. It performs well, no heating problems like the 454's and handles our extra tall enclosed trailer with 5' V-nose. It will out pull the Tundra on hills and gets 7-8 mpg on the road. This motor home is larger with slide outs compared to our previous motor homes that were powered with 454's and still gets better mpg.
The Work Horse chassis has a solid front axle....the first time I changed the oil could not help seeing "Made In Brazil" on the axle. One would think the axle would have been made in the U.S.A.
I also would like to to purchase vehicles only made in the U.S.A but that is no longer possible except if I buy an antique car.
Even parts from NAPA are sometimes made in other countries.
The rear brake pads on our daughters 2002 chev. p/u were made in Australia including the replacements at NAPA.
Between EPA and our Government rules......we have been sold down the tubes!
I went to the local CarQuest to buy rear axle bearings for my 1971 Plymouth GTX. When the bearings came in, they were plainly marked "China", so I returned them. The counter man said that the bearings came from Federal Mogul and all their stuff is outsourced now. Luckily, American made Timken bearings are still available through Auto Zone and Rock Auto.
A Toyota Tundra has more US content than most products from Dodge, Chevy or Ford. They are made right down the road from me here in Texas by Texans!
I have seen 1 tundra hauling?? a 5'th wheel in all my years of hauling.Bud.
How's this for an all American tow vehicle? (Had to wait for a day for my better half to put the picture on.)
Recently saw this and had to take a picture.
My 50 Ford Panel Truck, I used to tow Model T's to meets in the 70's and 80's. It would pull the car and trailer at 65mph with no problem. At the same time a friend of mine had a newer late 80's chevy pick up with a 305. He was pulling an identical trailer to what i was using, I would out pull him on the hills. He was not happy. I also used this 78 Ford F-250 Aero Motorhome for towing, and still use this at Hershey every year. If you're looking for a tow vehicle before the computer age, the best truck you can buy is a 67 through 70's Ford F-250 with a 390. The truck has all kinds of power, no pollution crap, and the first pick up to start using car like interiors. They are a beautiful driving truck. I had a body shop at the time these trucks were new, so I drove them all. The Dodge and Chevy of the era weren't even close to the comfort and drive-ability of the Ford truck. The Motor Home that I am using, even with the heavy camper body on it, pulls the trailer and car, and you don't even know its there. It has the 390 in it and 92,000 miles on it.
From the Panel truck I went to a new 91 Ford F150 with a 302. I still have this truck. When I went to an enclosed trailer, I ordered new F-250 V-10, standard shift. 100% satisfied with the performance of this truck.
Late 70s or early 80 for something without a computer
I just read an article this morning whereby a Nissan Titan pick up truck with a Cummins V8 (as opposed to the present Dodge or Ram with an inline 6 Cummins) will be available in 2015. I wonder if that Cummins V8 is an existing design or if the V8 will also be something new to Cummins in 2015,.....???
Sorry about the "thread drift" Bob. You probably wouldn't want to go this old, but I had 3/4 ton '70 Dodge crew cab with a 318 with manual 4-speed that was sure a tough old truck. Had an identical '67 too and they were sure tough old trucks, but I will admit that with that I-beam front axle, they rode pretty hard too! But I never had a bit of trouble with either one of them. As good at restoration as you are though Bob, one of those tough old Dodges wouldn't be a bad choice. I bought both of those old Dodge 3/4 ton crew cabs used and never had a bit of trouble with either of them! I looked at trading the '70 in on a new Dodge truck in the '80's and I actually had a dealer tell me that the truck I had was a better truck that a new one at that time.
I got you all beat .....
back to the original question, dodge put the computer on in mid 91. i had a 93 that was a great truck untill the brain got sick. you cant just take it out because it runs about everything. when i gave up i bought a clean old 89, first year cummins, from out west. 2wd and manual trans is simple and cheep to run. just finished 3000 mile trip from minn. to wa. and back with a t in the box, best tank was 28.2 mpg, worst was 20.9, average for 3000 miles 24.5 .the new cummins make big power, but barely get half that mileage.
Well maybe and maybe not!
I hope the Futureliner was cut up for some really good reason.....