I am working on my Dodge Diesel starter motor. It is mounted with three hardened bolts with round heads that have a 12 pointed raised star which provides a gripping surface for a wrench to fit. Due to the tight fit a socket will not slip over a regular hexagonal bolt head. So they use a bolt with a round head with a 12 pointed star on top of it for a special socket to fit. It is called a flange bolt and it looks like a 12 point TORX.
We all know that sockets come in 12 point and six point formats and that six point are stronger because of more surface contact. This special bolt with the raised 12 point star on the head and will not accept a regular 12 point socket for a regular bolt head or nut. The sides of this star are not parallel. The directions state that a 12 point 10 m.m. socket should be used to remove the bolts. It should state a special Flange Bolt 12 pointed star socket.
A 10 mm 12 point socket will not slip over the star and a 12 point 11 mm socket spins and will not grab. The special star bolt needs a star socket. Another way to explain it is that the head of the bolt is shaped like a 12 pointed TORX wrench. I need a 12 pointed TORX socket. The URL below will bring up a picture of the bolt. I need the socket to fit it.
I went to several reputable tool stores and did find a TORX type wrench with 12 points rather than six but could not find a socket in the same configuration. The wrench I found is made by OEM brand Tools for professionals. But they do not have that star format in a socket.
Dodge does not sell a starter solenoid rebuild kit or even a solenoid. Their solution is to remove and replace the complete starter. Which including labor is pushing $600. I can buy an aftermarket solenoid rebuild kit for under $30 and fix it in less than an hour but I have to get that flange bolt off first.
. . . . . Can anyone assist with finding a 12 point star socket for a flange bolt ?
Do two different searches, "torx" and "e-socket."
I've replaced the solenoid contacts contacts with over-sized contacts on a couple Dodge Cummins, it is a common problem. I had no problem using a 10mm 12 point socket. Maybe the points are rounded off a little and you could tap/hammer the socket on the bolt.
Eric, They have 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch drive capabilities. I require at least 1/2 inch drive because that starter is put on there by high torque. The people on the Dodge web site say they need a half inch breaker bar with a 24 inch cheater to get it loose.
But thanks now I know to ask for an E TORX. Sears does not have them and the supposedly well informed man sold me a 12 point regular metric socket which I shall return tomorrow.
I wasn't paying attention when I was reading 12 point vs 6 point so my advice to go to HF won't work.
New socket and a 40 year old well worn socket and the starter has never been off. The bolts are all like new. The new 10 mm 12 point socket I got today will not go anywhere near fitting. How did you get it to fit ? was yours a well worn socket ?
What about a 3/8" standard 12 point socket?
These bolts are very common in heavy equipment and use a 12 point socket. They are high torque bolts.
I have worked with then for years.
Fred. Thanks, I purchased a 12 point internal metric set made by O.E.M at Auto zone. They do not fit into the corresponding 12 point sockets. I need a star shaped socket much like a TORX, not a flat sided 12 point socket made for hex bolts. Can you assist ?
Are you sure they are metric? I would expect a Cummins diesel to have SAE 12 point bolts.
I always use a 12 pt 10mm box wrench to get those bolts off, they are very tight and usually need a cheater bar on the wrench to get them loose, also if that starter has upwards of 150k miles it probably needs brushes as well. I have repaired many dodge diesel starters over the years.
NAPA has the E Torx sockets.
Thank you David.
I think it is a little like that old Mercedes trick where you needed 'ignition style' wrenches in larger sizes to get things done and I wound up grinding a set on a Blanchard to size
I think your issue has to do with all of those radii coming together and what a 'standard' 12 point wrench or socket does...the geometry just doesn't make it.
I did some trolling...found this. Sounds too cheap but hey....it's a lead, maybe call them and ask why their wrench is supposedly better!
frank, all the new stuff is Torx plus and is different that the old Torx. Scott
Good find George...
In another life, if I were King, I'd declare that all nut & bolt fasteners be of the same design. So frustrating to have all these different complications.
Do engineers get some kind of bonus when they dream up a peculiar fastener?
Yes, a bonus from the tool marketing department ;>)