As the title says, How common are reproduction T's and I'm asking about The Craftsman, Richard A Currier's Horseless Carriage Co. bodied cars like the roadsters, tourabouts and towncars.
According to the Craftman's site, he has delivered 700 bodies since 1985: http://www.the-craftsman.biz/aboutus.html
Now all repro bodies are probably not on running T's - some are likely in storage to be used "some day", others sits on projects that stalled long time ago.
I wouldn't consider a model T with a reproduction body a reproduction T - it's still a T if it has a model T chassis. If the chassis is mislabeled earlier than it really is due to the older style repro body, then it's just a misdated T
There are a few repro T's - Ford made six in 1914 style for the centennial 2003.
Some "T23" hot rods with plastic repro T bodies are more kit cars than anything else, nothing T in them, really.
To the best of my knowledge the six repro T's made by Ford that Roger mentioned are the only "reproduction" T's at all. There are a lot of repro parts out there, but not whole cars. With the exception of the 1914's made by Ford in 2003, I don't think anyone has made any cars that include a new chassis, engine block or head made to original specs. I guess there could be some made privately, but it's not likely anyone made a whole car from scratch.
Just my thought on it....
Since the 6 T's mentioned were in fact built by Ford to Ford drawings, it would seem they might more correctly be labeled "re-issued" rather than reproduced since the term repro generally applies to some company other than the original maker. The good news is that unlike other markets, the addition of good reproduction parts does not seem to diminish the value of a car that has been restored when these parts are used.
Since it was pretty common for custom bodies to be built on not just an expensive chassis, but even on popularly price ones, I'd say the term "rebodied" would be more accurate. Also, back in the brass era it was common for the wealthy to commission, say a Locomobile, Stoddard-Dayton, Lozier, Winton, et al with two bodies- i.e. a town car and a tourer.
In the end authenticity is only as good as the paperwork and numbers will take you. A proven rebody would, of course, reduce the value id different from the original.
I find it interesting that I have heard that the T100 reproduction cars made by Ford are incorporating original T parts as problems surface with some of the reproduction parts. I have heard that some of them are now using original T pans and transmissions.
It seems to me that I have read this mentioned here on this web site and that it is not something widely publicized in Detroit.
Heres one that was displayed.
That's a new Rootlieb body, but I think the chassis is 100-year-old original Ford.
"Reproduction"; it can be such a misleading word!
I once met a man in Thibodaux, LA, who owned a Gatling Gun; it worked. This man had one of the most extensive private collections of firearms in the world. On holidays, he would sometimes fire the Gatling Gun; I believe it was also used in a couple of movies.
One of his favorite items to show was a set of dueling pistols from the late 1700's. They were brand new and had only been fired a couple of times.
When I said, "These are beautiful reproductions", he kindly said, "Bill, they're not reproductions. These are "contemporaries".
When I asked what the difference was between "Reproduction" and "Contemporary", I learned from him that "Contemporaries" are recently made, but from original tooling and using original methods.
While I don't know the detailed history of the T100 project, I like to think that the six cars built are more contemporaries than reproductions.
If we could only go back about eighty years and change how we do everything. The fact is, so many parts have been swapped around on so many cars, that it is difficult to say what is original, reproduction, remake, put-together, or what. The HCCA goes through these debates every few years, and while I think some of it is okay, a lot of it is just plain silly. It would have been nice if everyone had kept accurate notes.
The following is not intended to inflame debates. But it could. It is intended simply as "something to think about". Read with caution.
How much of the original car is needed for the restored car to be a "restored car" and not a "remake"? 80%? 70%? 65%? The fact is, you cannot treat a model T the same as you would a Lozier. Or a Stanley Steamer.
The situation with model Ts and reproduction bodies and so many other parts is similar. A nicely done Ray Wells '09 body on a 1920 chassis with Rootlieb and Brassworks almost everything else is a beautiful car. It is NOT a correct car. It should not be claimed as an original and should not be taken on HCCA tours. However, it should be driven and seen at almost any other general showing or cruise-in where the general public is welcomed. It may be NOT a 1909. But it is representative of a '09 and allows the general public a chance to see what it was like and get a general idea of how much things have changed.
It is not all a bad thing.
People seem to always want to draw lines. This far is good. That far is bad. Mine belongs with the "big boys"! Yours? Not so much.
The truth is, that line is not difficult to draw. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!
A Brass era model T had ten years of massive production following it providing spare replacement parts. There are hundreds of parts made to this day to help keep them on the road. That Lozier I spoke of? A nearly unique automobile. Fairly low production, even by expensive car standards of the day. Production ended just about when the "Brass Era" ended. No follow up by the company. Unlike the Packards, Pierce Arrows, Stutzes etc of the time, they didn't develop a significant following to preserve the remnants of cars to aid in future restorations. And almost all of the major parts were unique to Lozier. Unlike a hundred other manufacturers of the day, you cannot simply find a Mott axle and make it work. Yet they are well known enough that if you use wrong parts, someone will know.
The earlier Stanley steamers are totally different again. Easily half the car can be simply made in a home shop. That was basically how they were built (only it was a factory) when they were new. Wheels can be adapted or made entirely new. Front axles depending upon year and model can be found and adapted from common cars, or for the earlier cars, even they can be easily made. The boilers, plumbing and more are almost never original in a car that is ever driven (safety issues). In fact, about all you need to "restore" a Stanley Steamer is most of an original Stanley motor. That is the one piece that was saved from most of the cars built.
A dirty little secret in the Horseless Carriage crowd is that most Stanley Steamers in beautiful condition today, are less than half original cars. There are a lot of people that want to turn away brass model Ts unless they are at least 90% authentic parts. But almost nobody wants to turn away a Stanley Steamer, even if the only thing Stanley on it is 100 ponds of steam motor.
Yeah. Lets see you draw that line.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Each year, the MTFCI awards the Stynoski Award for the "best restoration of the year", if an entrant scores enough judging points to warrant the award. "The car must be a full bodied Model T Ford as it came from the factory."
At the MTFCI 50th annual National Tour in 2006, there were two cars entered into the Stynoski competition. One was a gorgeous 1910 Town Car, the other was a 1927 Touring Car. The Town Car was all decked out in profuse amounts of brass and a $10,000 (that's a guess) paint job. The Touring looked very plain by comparison, the two cars sitting nose-to-nose on the judging grounds.
The '10 had a Ray Wells body and had some modern bolts & nuts, etc.; the '27 was a painstaking restoration of a very nice original car, using virtually all its original parts. Needless to say, the owner of the Town Car was not a happy camper when his car lost to the Touring. The judges determined that the Town car did not qualify for the award, because it was not a "full bodied Model T Ford as it came from the factory". It had a reproduction body.
The Owner of the Touring Car seemed somewhat surprised as well. The judging was on Tuesday, and the tour continued for the entire week. The '27 Touring was driven on all the tours every day, even in a torrential downpour. After that, it didn't exactly look like a Stynoski Award winner, but everyone knew it was.
That is the way it should be. And I know that is what you are saying.
A long time friend of mine. Quite wealthy by almost any standards (he earned it, he and his family deserve it), and with one of the most fabulous private collections I have ever seen, rarely shows his cars at major shows. He has a higher standard than is used at most shows. On a Mercer being restored some years ago, they (okay, mostly he paid someone) painstakingly straightened, filed, and sanded the original running board trim. It came out beautiful, at great cost. However, he knew it could never be "perfect". He knew that a half dozen other Mercers would be at Pebble Beach with brand new manufactured running board trim that would be flawless! The restoration on his car is probably a true 99 (out of 100) point car. It is gorgeous! But he doesn't restore or collect for trophies. It is a passion with him just like it is for many of us. The car was shown at Pebble Beach, as one of the featured marque. He declined to have it judged. Because of the running board trim.
I like him.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I remember a Ward Kimble cartoon in the Horseless Carriage Gazette some time ago (early 1970's?). A fellow in a restoration shop had only a bashed up hub cap in hand and was saying something like "sure I can restore this car". A gentle jibe at the HCCA membership!
Adding original cut drum gears in those T100's make them restored originals! (perhaps)
To some folks new paint on an original car makes it less than an original car. To others a set of Rootleib fenders and a Brassworks radiator does not make it a reproduction. It really doesn't matter to anyone unless you want to participate with others who care. HCCA seems to want only "original" cars but Pebble Beach, local clubs and neighborhood car shows don't seem to care about originality of parts.
It is my opinion that you must decide for yourself what is original and what is reproduction. Inevitably you will run into some folks who disagree with your assessment... after going on a tour about 20 years ago and getting slapped with an attempted exclusion by one "purist", I say ignore 'em (I cleaned up the language) and enjoy the cars you like.
I remember that cartoon! I was actually thinking about it as I was typing some of my above. Believe it or not, I do sometimes try to keep it short.
Thank you, Terry. Great minds think alike.
Are you planning to attend Les Silvera's Endurance Run?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
As long as that guy is taking on your coupelet, figuring 50 cents an hour, you might could have bought one from "The Craftsman" cheaper (and probably quicker). Any word on it lately?
I don't want to talk about it......
As eluded to previously most restored veteran cars were never complete before restoration. My 1910 Hupmobile started as a chassis ( Cut in half and used as a bean frame ) an engine , a transmission , a steering box and a collection of incomplete and sometimes incorrect parts . Eventually a clutch mechanism and radiator were fabricated and various castings were taken off other cars. Not a single extra original part was able to be brought for the restoration . It is now complete and used frequently on veteran car outings . Most (non T owning) veteran car owners would laugh at the idea that my car was non original or at the thought of not letting me run in a rally. When the car you are restoring is not one of 15 million you get the parts how you can!
I never wanted to offend a soul, I was just curious how many "Brass Era" cars we see have NEW bodies. I'd love to build a 09-12 roadster to DRIVE and ENJOY. I wouldn't feel right having a pile of parts judged so it would be purely for enjoyment.
No sweat...the way this place goes day-in/day-out. Just a bunch of guys who like and enjoy T's.
We have 'ultra purists', 'pretty darned close', 'close enough', and 'I made it out of miscellaneous parts' all sharing equally here and usually playing along well with one another
The gang from any quarter usually has thick skin You want to build up a '12 from miscellaneous parts and a 'Ray Wells' body? You can...and you can even paint it pink because it is your car! Guys will love you just the same and I've never once seen anyone chastised in a mean way...heck, some of the original/originals get questioned all the time when the owner takes something out to show.
What does irk a few, and I personally do think rightfully so, is come sale time, etc....there are 'some' that try to pass off the 'fakes' as the real deal or have a middleman as a buffer who says 'sure looks original to me and those that have seen it." Can sell well, the new owner does a little or pays someone to do a little, and goes for an AACA Junior...when he gets it, want to talk about irked? I was glad when AACA went to historic preservation class probably about 25 years ago. I entered my 'pretty darned close' one that first year in a local/regional and was surprised when it got a real trophy. Once and last ime that I ever entered judged because I never did the hobby for trophies. I didn't know the real absolute fun and joy until 2010 when the Hack came into being.
The goal is to have fun and enjoy as you apparently wish to do. I've participated at all quarters mentioned...and will add that the one that I have the absolute most fun with in the stable is that last category...chassis from one place, powertrain from another, bolt-on new Hack body, vinyl seat cushions, self-manufactured rear fenders from two each touring fenders, left over parts from elsewhere, etc...I get in, turn the key, and 'go' (usually most of the time) and share the fun with anyone who wants to practice 'fun'. On the 'ultra pure', I unfortunately feel that I have to be a pit-bull that snarls at anyone who gets within 3 feet and have someone watch my car if I have to step away! The Hack for the most part on the other hand is allowed to be a 'jungle gym'. We all view these things differently...
There is another term that has been left out here, and the term is authentic. Case in point. I recently restored a 1925 Runabout Pickup from parts. The car is 100% real Ford, including the nuts and bolts, and is authentic, but is not original, because it never was a car until I put it together.
A guy who is rolling in dough buys a rare 1910 car in rough shape and with a few pieces missing and pays for a restoration with correct parts bought or made. Another fellow assembles from parts a 1923 touring that is, as Larry says, authentic. Who deserves credit? I say both. They're both doing the research necessary and investing the time and/or money to put another real T on the road.
Another term that is used from time to time on this forum is 'cobbled'.
I have noticed some guys don't want a T that has been built up from a 'pile of parts'.
The reference is made to a car that has been built up from T parts. (cobbled together).
I guess I am one of those guys who has 2 T's that have been built up from 'a pile of parts'. In other words cobbled together.
I started with the correct frame for the year and found the body for the year I wanted to use and went from there.
The 1919 Roadster took me about 3-4 years and the 21 Touring has been in the works about 2+ years and counting.
They will be authentic 'cobbled together' cars I would suppose.
As I said in my first comments. It would be nice if we could go back 80 years and all keep a record of what is "original" or was done or changed on every car.
I would not call your car "cobbled". If the frame, primary chassis parts and body are all of basically the same vintage, how is it really different than any other model T with an unknown past? Even a properly built Depot Hack can be truly representative of Depot Hacks of the era. The cars I would call "cobbled" are ones with major parts from various years or hokey made-up bodies.
I don't usually point fingers to a specific car, but this one is SO bad. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Restored-1909-Model-T-/261277445560?pt=US_Cars_Tr ucks&hash=item3cd5596db8#ht_499wt_1177
Now THAT is a cobbled car. (And worth about one-fifth what they are asking.)
If Rex P wants to put together a '12 using a Ray Wells body and a bunch of somewhat later parts because he wants to drive it and enjoy it, I say "wonderful"! Nice looking cars being driven (safely) and seen by the general public is a good thing. (And the earlier the better) He should be reasonably honest about what it is, but don't need to broadcast it.
As far as offending anyone? I learned a long time ago that no matter what you do, it will offend somebody. I met someone many years ago that was offended by anyone that exhaled carbon dioxide because it was endangering the planet. He thought his breathing was okay however because he "was trying to educate everyone else".
So put another '12 on the road. Be honest with yourself, and enjoy it. If someone wants to be unreasonable? Don't worry about them. There should be room in this hobby for the perfect originals and the "cobbled" cars, and the 99 percent in between.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Look at it this way - at a minimum, the "restorer" of a cobbled car puts a protective coat of paint on parts that would otherwise be lost to corrosion or crushed, saving them for some true "restorer" in the future to use them for a true "restoration".
People in T times, and especially later during the depression and WWII, did whatever was necessary to keep their T's going and functioning to suit their needs. The guy whose kids were grown and needed more rationed gas in WWII probably didn't worry about keeping up with the back section of his touring when he made it into a truck. Finding a T today that's unmolested since coming from the factory is probably more unusual than we think. I appreciate those vehicles and have one I'm sure of and another that's supposed to be, but, I also have 4 more that were resurrected from parts. Does that make them any less Model T? It sure doesn't make them any less fun! This is the most "cobbled up" one I ever built: Other than Model A wheels, the rest started life as some sort of T. The cowl was all that was left of a 25 coupe, and the back of the cab was a tudor body that had been parted out. After I wrecked it, it became a depot hack. It has no waterpump and still runs on coils!
I have a '10 that was restored in the early 50's from a complete original car, a '12 that was restored in the 60's from a complete original car and a '13 that was assembled from correct parts. If I didn't tell you there would be no way anyone could ever tell. The car I put together is certainly not a reproduction. None of the parts were reproduced, they are all original Ford parts. It's certainly an assembled car but all of the parts were originally on a car, albeit several cars, so what is it?
Every car Ford (and all manufactures) ever made would have to be classified as "cobbled together"...They were all different parts put together on an "assembly line" I never heard of a car being built on a "complete line"!
I highly doubt that the cars went together easy and all the parts fit like a glove...I sure they bent, beat, and forced pieces together as they "assembled them from parts"
After being around Model T's almost all of my life I do believe your last line in your post about cars being put together on the assembly lines is 99.9% true!
I bought a nice original trunk lid several years ago to replace the beat up one on my Grandfathers 24 T Coupe. After rewooding the trunk area on the coupe and fitting up the 'nice original lid' to the trunk area I soon found out the lid was a little over 3/8th of an inch out of square.
So much for a glove fitting part.
I'm not too sure I'd jump on Ray Wells (Craftsman) as a 'reproduction' merchant. Ray built my '14 Ford runabout body using Rootlieb left and right body panels but also integrating my original: rear panel, door, latch, hinge, seat riser (with a 'B'), windshield and turtledeck. That, to my way of thinking, is a 'restored' body.
Folks, I just asked how common(we actually see around)are they, maybe my wording wasn't just right or you're reading too far into it but I never intended to piss anybody off. I enjoy original cars, painted cars, speedsters, brass era, black era etc etc.
I don't know how common it is....how many times have you seen a Ford at a show that reveals where the body came from or who made it?
In the case of the T-100 '14's, since they are indistinguishable from original (in this instance meaning manufactured by the original company in 1914), that's a line that dangerously hinges on deception. However, each of those cars are marked notating their new manufacture.
The '68 Shelby GT fastbacks used in the Nick Cage "Gone In Sixty Seconds" are reproductions, and may have authentic Ford Shelby GT parts, but were never manufactured by Ford or Shelby for that matter. Reproduction meaning in this instance not having been made by the original manufacturer.
If you put a Ray Wells '09 Touring body on a naked chassis, that's not an original 09 Touring but is a recreated 09 touring, unless he used all original sheet metal and put it on the original 09 touring chassis.
A Richard Currier commercial body on a naked chassis, is doing what was originally done in the day: buying a naked chassis and putting a specially built body on it.
Building a Town Car from the ground up from a reproduction body and using re-appropriated parts from long thrown away Ford parts and showing that car as an authentic Town Car is lying.
I like all Model T's, except the ones with chebby engines that say they are Model T's. And there's not a damn Model T part on them. Ford never made fiberglass Model T bodies.....
I don't know what to call my '16 (made Dec. 10, 1915) as when I got it, it had spent decades (since 1960) in pieces in a garage. It's going back together with all original parts, but I can't swear it left the factory with them--in fact, I know the front fenders didn't as I found a really nice pair of early take offs to use instead of reworking the ones that came with it (actually, a stack of fenders came with it). Oh, and the front axle came out of an old Ford dealership barn--NOS, but rusty where it had been resting on the dirt floor.
Reconstructed? Restored? Recreated?
Will anyone know? (Well, now that I've told the story, y'all know!)
The day you first drive the car, (in my opinion) it will be a restored 1916. It would be nice if you could make a note to state approximately how much of the car is original to one car solely for future research purposes. Regardless, it was a '16. it went through a lot its first several decades. It was eventually left somewhere to rot. Later it was "saved". When you first drive it, finished or not, it will have been "restored" into a running car.
Once again, we are hitting upon the definition of "restored". Past discussions mostly reached an agreement to disagree. There are in fact many levels of restoration. The simple and common use of the word should be taken as a generalization and not expected to imply any "specific" level, quality, or point of restoration. (Do I sound like a lawyer? I am sorry. I am not a lawyer and mostly despise the entire profession) If you want clarification on a "restored" car, give it, or ask for it.
As for the Ray Wells bodies. I would not mean to disparage him or them in any way. Most of his work winds up on cars I would call "restored" or at least reasonably authentically "recreated". His work is beautiful. Many wonderful antique automobiles are on the road today to be seen and enjoyed because of his quality work. If I had a little more money to spare, I would likely have bought a body from him long before now. I know several people that have bodies from him and they are all extremely satisfied with his work. Most of those people are fussier than I am.
I keep looking at his offerings and wondering If I could scrape up enough dollars to get a body, and then I remember all the other parts I would need to buy. Rats.
It is a good question and a nice discussion. At least so far.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I agree, a note state what is known to be original to the car would be nice, but by the time I came along, it was already a "Kit Car" with the body and the engine and radiator inside the barn and most everything else outside in stacks! The gentleman who purchased it back in '59 or so, was going to restore it, but in 1960 bought a Model A fordor sedan instead (that was a driver), and the T was just left, mostly forgotten, for "someday." He passes on and many years later, a close friend of the family hears me state that if I found an early T "on the cheap" I would like to have one. Well, I get introduced to his widow, Margaret, and become the new owner of this "barn kept" car. It was something else to get the barn doors open and retrieve "my car" (and clean up the barn, part of the deal).
So, just what was on the car when the Ford Factory assembled it, I can't swear too, although I'd say the engine block and at least the front half of the body probably were!
A Ray Well's body would probably be easier and quicker than fixing what I have, but I'm a stickin' to 'er!
And yes, this IS an interesting discussion!
Most 1909 tourings have bodies made entirely from wood, excepting the nails, screws, hinges and hardware. A very few were aluminum skinned. Very few of the 1909 Model T's you see have an original body, or even fenders for that matter. The vast majority of them have Ray Wells bodies.
Here's a beauty restored by Mark and Shari Cameron. Fantastic photos by Jon Smithers:
My 23 touring was apparently in an accident early in it's life and the front axle was replaced with a 1924 cast date axle, along with an aftermarket spring and a pre-1919 front engine mount/spring hanger to fit the aftermarket front spring. The engine was also replaced and has no seriel number. (I need to look at the castings and determine the date of casting). All this was done prior to Grandpa Ludwig buying it in 1926. Aside from what I've done with replacing the rear axle with a 26 Ruckstell, the radiator with a non- leaking flat core, Rocky mountain brakes, and wire wheels, was my car "original", "assembled", or what. I doubt any of our cars have the original wheels, bands, lenses,brakes,upholstery, etc they came with so I guess the only true "original" is the Rip Van Winkle T.
Ray Wells has put almost 1000 Model T Fords back on the road, and maybe more. I don't know what you call that, but I call that a good job. I think he deserves some kind of an award, not a debate on semantics. Rollie
When I was a kid in the late 50's/early 60's it was common to see a T on a used car lot as my family traveled around the country. In fact "old cars" were not uncommon at all. It was uncommon to see a car of that age look as if it had just left the showroom. At some point between then and now, those views changed positions. Now "old cars" are uncommon as you travel around, and when you do see one, it's not unusual for it to be in better condition than when it left the factory. I think it was human nature, nostalgia and a host of other emotions that first started the movement to save "old cars". Like any other commodity that has a fixed number of units, as those become smaller and smaller, our views can change. I like looking at well restored cars, not only for their beauty, but it tells me of the skill and attention to detail levels that the restorer has. I am forever in awe of some peoples talents. And after building over 100 Model T's I still can't do it without help from others. When I look at an unrestored, original car, it tells me a different story. The main story is survival. How did it survive. The people associated with it's journey. Over the last few years I have bought a handful of brass era cars that should never be restored, because their presents can never be duplicated. The old saying "Their only original once." But if your car was left outside by someone long ago with no second thought and the body and sheetmetal rotted away, does it make it any less of a car? To some yes. To some no. And to the nay sayers, I have one question. If people like Ray Wells and myself were to close up shop, would that suit you better knowing that far fewer cars were being restored and the generations to come would never experience that first drive sitting on the gas tank that we all remember so well.
Tom- Well stated. I agree whole heartedly. Thanks to you and everyone else who has helped to keep this hobby alive. Without the services of yourself and the other vendors and manufacturers, many of the great old cars we see on the road today would never have been saved or restored. What I continue to find fascinating is that with each passing year, the number of existing Model Ts actually increases. Some cars are finally getting restored and,in other cases, piles of miscellaneous parts are being turned into complete running automobiles. I have often wondered how many of your famous speedster kits you have sold over the decades?
Thank You Tom R! And Ray Wells (I don't know if he would read this or not)
Paul- We have never kept track of numbers. Our company is 40 yrs. old this year and we can somewhat guesstamate by recollection. The number of employees has varied from 3 to 18. My guess is that we have dropped 3 to 4 thousand axles and sold 4 to 5 thousand Model T speedster kits. Some years ago we were looking at similar data and we realized that we had put a new hood and 4 new fenders on a minimum of 40,000 cars. At the same time we put our best guess on how many cars survived, intact and in pieces at 200,000. While that number may seem big, it's only a 1.3% survival rate. So we have at least another 100 yrs.of work to do. Back in 1973, when I was 24 and we were just starting out, my father and I were talking one day and he told me not to count to much on this business, because in 10 years there wouldn't be anymore old cars left out there and we would both be looking for a job. I'll be 65 on my next birthday.
Tom, thanks for posting. You may enjoy my profile picture - I share your opinions on several things. So far I've cobbled together a couple cars, I'm in the process of restoring a complete original tudor, and I love my truck in mostly original condition. It's easy to enjoy nearly any Model T Ford.
Please keep up the good work.
Craig, I have built plenty of show dogs thru the years, but nothing beats the joy and fun of an old mutt. I love your truck.
I have personally put together three cars using Tom's services:
A speedster when I was 16
A New bodied '13 touring
A set of fenders for a '14 touring
Without his business there would not be as many people enjoying the hobby as there is now.
As far as "reproduction T's" go and the HCCA. My Speedster was always welcomed on EVERY HCCA event in the last 27 years. I have Never been turned away, nor has anyone I know with a car that was assembled or a car with a different engine in it that does not fall into the category or pre '16.
I plan on having the speedster at Hershey in the Red Field as my father and I like to mess around a little bit, and it makes for a great car to go and get those purchases later in the day that are " far away "
"How common are reproduction T's"
The back seat in our Fordor is pretty small. I can't imagine doing more than a little "petting" back there.
Thanks to Tom for helping me put my speedster together when I was 16 years old. Pictured here is the same speedster a few years ago at Hershey going on a collection of parts that a friend of mine purchased. Besides the parts we had two passengers. One in the passenger seat and one on the front floor.
Sorry for the double post!
Good one, Ed.
I'm six feet, and my girlfriend was 5' 10", and we managed in my MGTD.
This thread is dangerous....
Tom Rootlieb started me thinking about old cars and how lucky we are that any exist after the scrap drives during WW2.
We lost many Model Ts during that time.
More thinking -- seems to me that Steve Jelf is using every trick he can to make sure Ts don't disappear!
Why does Ralf always bring up the seedy part of a discussion?
Must be the California sun or LA smog!
But he did remind me that the Model A town sedan was a great vehicle to take to the drive in!
I didn't start this wayward drift, Fred; Ed did. I just enhanced it.
There's a chance my oldest brother got his start in a one year old 1923 T runabout.