in another post I read about "Rip Van Winkle 1917 model T",
a very original, factory condition car.
I am curious about more details concerning this car and its
Where is it now? is this the best unrestored T?
Old information to begin your quest...
I read about it in Bruce's book, "Model T Ford, The Car That Changed the World". Don't know what ever happened to it.
Thank you, it must be a wonderful car, any pics?
That's a "must have" book that everyone with a T needs. I hear the CD is better, (and cheaper to ship to Brazil) but, I haven't personally seen it. Lot's of pics in there of how things were in what years--including Rip Van Winkle.
Bruce's encyclopedia includes nineteen pages on the Rip Van Winkle car, with lots of pictures. This link includes info on where to get it.
Approx. 10 years ago, while attending the Bakersfield swap meet in Calif. ......I talked to a Guy that claimed he owned the Rip Van Winkle model T. I remember him telling me he lived in Bakersfield and was involved with VW's.
At the time, I had an original 1912 model 29 Buick that I brought to the meet to sell. He was very interested in the Buick and even brought his wife/family to look at the car.
We did not come to an agreement on price and he did not buy the car.
I attend the swap meet each year and have see him there several times over the years.
This is all that I know about the location of the Rip Van Winkle model T.
I too saw the 1917 Rip Van Winkle Model T at Bakersfield about a decade ago. I think the new owner was Holthouse, not sure of the spelling, corrections are most welcome.
I built my own 1917 Touring based on the pictures in The Car That Changed The World, that T is now in England....
While the car was in like new condition back in 1937 when the original owner sold it, it deteriorated badly from being stored in an open shed from 1963 to 1978 - see Erik Johnson's post in this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/191892.html
Still all the original unworn details on the car can be studied.
The owner is Daniel Holthaus, and he does live in Bakersfield.
Last November I found a 1930 Model A 4 door that had been parked under a row house in D.C. in 1938
Only 1370 miles on the car.
I have pictures over on Ford Barn.
Deterioration from being stored badly indeed, Fred - found your thread: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89782
That is a Town Sedan - 3 widows down the side.
I own an original 1931 Model A Town Sedan.
It is still in my Mom's barn and I need to move it - but don't have room.
My dad purchased it in the early 60's when a dealer friend called him and explained that he had taken it in trade for new Rambler from the original owner.
I drove it to high school when my 41 Ford coupe was broken - most of the time.
It went in the barn in the mid sixties close to the same time the 1919 T was stored.
The last I saw it was in poor shape but significantly better than Fred's.
The rubber molding was dripping down the windows and rust was showing thru the paint near the door bottoms.
I will most likely end up selling it .
To be more correct, that is a Murray bodied 4 dour sedan, based on what appears to be shiny door pulls on the inside window trim, and the cowl lights, I'd say it's a Deluxe Fordor. and made around June, 1930 or earlier.
Neat find! Looks like you'll need new fenders, splash shields and running boards though. Too bad about the rust out in the cowl, but that's typical. If the body wood is solid, that's a real plus!
That must be the lowest mileage Model A in the world. And it still has the delivery sticker on the glass.
I have seen a 1930 Town Sedan [ RHD] with 52,000miles & thought that was quite special.
I just love it when pictures of very complete original cars are posted and someone says how bad they have deteriorated. Sure, they aren't perfect, but come on. How often are cars that complete found? Many are hauled out of ditches and fence rows and have been beautifully restored. Let me tell you, if I had found the Rip Van Winkle T, I would still be dancing a Jig!!!. JMHO. Dave
I have a 1924 touring that is 100% untouched original with original paint, top, and upholstery it was found in Maine about 10 years ago and shows very little wear and no body damage and it runs like a watch. It does not look like a restored car but it should never be restored only preserved to show what a 1924 Model T was as it came from the factory.
Chester, any pictures of your '24?
David, it's just a pity these unique vehicles weren't stored better - there are.. thousands(?) of Victrolas hundred years old that still have their original finish in good condition since they were stored inside the house, it's a pity outhouses and garages weren't better back in the old days. After all there are antique cars restored in the 50's still in good condition, that's over fifty years. Sad that so few really old cars has been cared for as good all the time since new.
Roger, My 1924 touring did have very good care over the last 89 years and does not show a lot of deterioration considering its age. It even has both original floor mats. Biggest minus the car has is some one decided to improve it's appearance by spraying some areas where the paint was thin with a rattle can of black lacquer. I have been successful getting it off the fenders but not sure how to get it off the body while leaving the original paint. I have no idea how to post pictures on the computer but if you need any details in particular would be happy to answer questions or send pictures.
Your 1924 touring sounds like a great candidate for an article in the “Vintage Ford” as well as to document many additional photos that will not be able to be published due to limited space in the magazine. In the Mar – Apr 1998 “Vintage Ford” they ran a great article about a 1925 “loss leader” touring that was bare bones – no starter no demountables etc. The engine serial number of that car was entered on the Mar 21, 1925 engine production log – so the car could have been produced shortly after that or since it was found in California – if it was assembled there it would have been later.
It sounds like your 1924 would be great to document and hopefully even show some comparisons between what if anything changed from your 1924 to the later 1925 car etc. If you have time and would be interested in taking the photos etc. I would encourage you to do that. If you do not have a copy of the previous article – I will gladly send you one as an example of what was done in the past. You could also use it for similar photos when things changed. For example the 1925 car in the article has the equal length door hinges – and early 1924 would have still had the unequal door hinges etc. Please send me an e-mail if you [or anyone else reading this] would like a copy of that article (it is free – the club allows us to do that to promote our club and hobby). And if you would like help putting an article together. Or better yet – you can go direct to the editor Jay Klehfoth -- his contact information is listed at: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/contacts.htm
Hap l9l5 cut off
David- What is the difference between a Briggs and Murray?
Fred, Just mfg but the Murray has a slightly curved top and the Briggs is straght? Bud,Whose Wife has a Briggs 29 Towne Sedan.
This is not a Rip Van Winkle car, a 30 Briggs standard 4dr. sedan, all original and was well taken care of before I got it back in 1988 and which has remained in this same condition as I got. It only has 31000 miles on it and has never started to be restored other then the second owner replacing the tires with the wrong 21" rims and rechroming the bumpers. I have the correct the rims and tires just haven't taken the time to switch them over. No with major engine work, original interior and floor mats, never repainted and can still see the pin striping. The running boards are in the worst condition as far as the body metal goes which was common on the 30's I got replacements just never replaced them just set them on top. The rest of the body metal shows no rust outs.
At my age now it would be better to pass it on to someone that could complete the restoration in a more professional way then I could when a car in this good shape to use to start with. I would keep it as a standard and not do an upgrade to a deluxe style. Everybody does it and now very few good examples of a standard style exist today.
This is the lesson I learned when I started restoring my 22 center dr. that I never has been completely finished after I start up my foundry and machine shop business. It was estimated it had less then 10,000 on it since it too had never been worked on outside of standard maintains. But the roof had a problem in rear section which discolored the headliner.
Another reason I haven't started restoration on this fairly decent original 22 coupe. If you can't start and finish a project in a given time frame of this scope you shouldn't start. Just me. Bob
Bob, how old are those pictures? The shop did not look like that when I was there last. I remember Bill Wolfgram Sr. showing me that A sedan in the 70's. It sure is a nice one! Do you know where his TT went?
Ed,Did Mr Wolfgram have a TT truck in his barn?? When i worked part time for Cofferon/Good year i offered to trade him some grader tires for it in 69 or 70.Bud.
Yes, it had a closed cab. Sliding doors, grain body.
we have pulled and inspected parts off of the 30 model a. Babbit is like new,trans shifts with a very Crisp "Click" Paint behind the wheels is black,brake drums are perfect. Radiator is as close to NOS as you can get.
Also has a 31 slant window 4 door with 16,000 miles,awsum car.
Ed, it was in 2010 when we pulled everything out and washed down the cars and floors and straightened things up a bit. I also bought a T buss saw rig and a TT trailer set up as well at his sale. Makes it look a little better after everything gets cleaned up, never know when the widow sale will be. Bob
Hopefully between you and Charlie V., the widow sales will be staggered a few years. You would glut the market, and kill T parts prices.