Water Pump Packing?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Water Pump Packing?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:41 am:

What is the best water pump packing and who sells it? Thanks, PK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:47 am:

I believe all the big boys have it. Snyder's # is A-8524. Mac's shows 3 types. Teflon, graphite and what they call an original type lead like rope. I've used the teflon type and it works but what's best? Don't know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:49 am:

I used the graphite impregnated string from some vendor until I bit the bullet and put in a new stainless shaft and modern seal from McMaster. It hasn't leaked in about ten years.

BTW, I run a thermostat, too, so the engine gets up to efficient temp fast and stays there. This is especially important in the winter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 12:38 pm:

Newspaper and coffee grounds are good packing materials for water pumps. Throw in some orange peel, Styrofoam cups, and some paper towels to complete the typical contents of a dumpster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis K Anderson on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 01:16 pm:

Royce that's ridiculous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 01:21 pm:

A side benefit is you get a hot cup of coffee from whatever leaks out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Jesteadt on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 02:15 pm:

when I saw this title I clicked just thinking how Royce was going to comment.!! my 14 had a w p when I got it about 4 years ago I made bushing and use Teflon packing [ I had never had a t prior] I'm no authority but I don't think there of much value ---a good radiator is the solution to overheating I don't hold it against anyone who has one either right now I just need for some one to tell where I can get the info to rig the linkage for auxillary brakes !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 02:31 pm:

Richard,

That's exactly why I check this thread as well! I don't know anything about water pumps, but I had to see what Royce was going to say!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 02:54 pm:

I'm with Richard J and Cameron..
Had to see what Royce would say:-)

Richard G has the right idea! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 02:55 pm:

Well I liked the idea of hot coffee on the go. This old roadster had the pump which is a old installation. Haven't seen a pump like this one. Richard, was the modern seal for water pumps or another application? I have an account at McMaster.PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Jesteadt on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 03:14 pm:

Pat it was just a piece of Teflon string packing that I had laying around from rebuilding large irrigation pumps many years ago [I don't throw any thing away] I MIGHT NEED IT SOMEDAY keeps the old head sharp --- remembering where I stashed it!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 04:29 pm:

I am like the rest of you, I wanted to see what Royce was going to say, but I have to agree with him on this one. I have had too many water pump failures on too many different cars, pickups, trucks, and tractors, that I think a car that is designed to run with out a water pump is a great idea. I also have a John Deere model A that uses the thermobarf cooling system. and I have never had a problem with that type of water cooling.
One problem with a water pump is that if you have a fan belt failure, it is the same as a water pump failure, and I have experienced a fan belt failure on my T. I was able to drive home several miles in 85+ temps with out the engine getting hot, try that with a broken fan belt with a water pump.
Best
gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 10:06 pm:

I think the best water pump packing material is bubble pack. I would check with the post office though before shipping it to the unfortunate new owner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:02 pm:

Mine is a two blade pump, and I have the pulley marked so without a belt I can align the blades so they don't impede flow. I use a modern ribbed belt and have never broken one, so I haven't tried that yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:10 pm:

Stick with graphited packing.
Teflon can't take the surface speed of the shaft.
It's not fun chipping out melted teflon.
I have never heard anyone making ridiculous statements about the Model A's........everyone of which has a pump.
Come to think of it nearly every other auto engine built had pumps.......including the Ford Model T predecessors.
I guess the other manufacturers weren't that cheap.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:33 pm:

All I can say, do to my limited T experience is this is the only T engine that pulls the very steep mile long hill to my house and isn't bubbling at the top. I know pumps get ragged on allot but I like what this pump is doing for me here in the mountains. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 12:40 am:

I go to the hardware store and get some water faucet packing. It is cheap and readily available.
It is of a smaller string but you just have to wrap it around more times.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 08:33 am:

Go to www.mcmaster.com and type "compression packing seals" into the search box. McMaster Carr is good about describing the various types and you can educate yourself on what would best serve your needs based upon their descriptions and specs. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 09:42 am:

You are going need some waterproof grease to fill the voids in the packing. Most modern wheel bearing or chassis grease will work. Cost with grease as you install it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 12:51 pm:

I have never understood the reasoning of "A Model A has a water pump....." or "A Model A has a distributor....." A Model A is SUPPOSED to have a water pump and a distributor. '32 Fords had a V-8. Perhaps that is justification for dropping in a crate motor? After all, if Henry had had crate motors, he would have used them. Right?

It is all about keeping the car (whatever the car) original. I have a Model A and you can bet it has a water pump and a distributor. And you can also bet that the distributor has points and condenser and a manual spark advance. I wouldn't put electronic ignition or auto advance on a Model A any more than I would put a water pump or distributor on a Model T. It's all about what is original. Am I the only one that thinks that water circulating on its own with no pump is just neat as hell?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 12:54 pm:

No Hal, you're not alone; water circulating on it's own with no pump IS neat as hell! And, this comes from a guy (me) who sells pumps for a living!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 01:15 pm:

No doubt "Thermo-barf" (as RDR puts it) works on a stock T.
What is ignored is that #1 cylinder runs too cold and #4 cylinder runs way too hot. The water inlet location on the block is probably the real culprit. Henry however located it where he did.
So on to water pumps. I now have all the castings to copy what Frontenac supplied for the "racing" T motor. The pump was located on the right side of the block and the water entered through the "core plug" holes (all three of them)(what people call "frost plugs"). And so it will now get uniform flow to all the cylinders and exhaust valve areas. I plan to use a 17-4 precipitation material for the water pump shaft and I have some packing supplied by Johns Manville (graphite impregnated).

On another note in regards to water pumps and T engines. I acquired a Roberts factory converted T boat engine. It of course has a water pump and interestingly they went to considerable efforts to try to get reasonably uniform water flow throughout the engine.

Like lots of others, I clicked on this post to see what "useful tidbit" Royce would provide!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 01:21 pm:

Hal, question for you. Do you feel the same way about Ruckstells as you do waterpumps? Not trying to start anything just curious why some folks (perhaps not you) accept some aftermarket items but not others. I mean if you want to stick with originality I respect that, but why favor high compression heads, Ruckstells, etc over other items, none of which came with the car originally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 01:29 pm:

Richard - There might be just one other factor to consider in your comparison of "acceptability" of a water pump and a Ruckstell:

From what I understand from several historical accounts, the Ruckstell was the only aftermarket accessory that Henry Ford approved of. In fact, the Ruckstell was approved by Ford for installation by Ford dealer authorized repair facilities.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 02:24 pm:

Harold and Richard
To slice it a bit finer, Henry only accepted the Ruckstell starting about 1925 I believe. It does appear in the Ford Canada parts book of 1925, but I don't believe before. So I would think it would be OK for '25-27 T's!!
Just kidding around!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 03:48 pm:

Richard,

For the most part, yes, I feel the same way about Ruckstells and Warfords. They are fine for others, I suppose, but nothing I would ever do. I AM kinda considering auxilliary brakes, just for safety. I find T brakes sufficient, but the thought of losing a pinion gear and having NO brakes does cross my mind.

I've said it many times before, but there are three things that, to me, make a T a T:

The transmission
The ignition system
The lack of pumps of any kind

I would NEVER do ANYTHING to compromise those three things. Sure, there are cars out there that will out run mine. They may even be more reliable, but probably not much. I am willing to accept that and derive my pleasure from knowing it operates like it did in its day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 03:51 pm:

Hal,Amen to that!!!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 05:14 pm:

Hal - I guess this would be the wrong time, and you'd be the wrong person to ask for advice about the best type of cup holder for my coffee cup and where would be the best place to mount it, huh?


(.....like Les,....I'm just kidding around too,.....sorta'.........grin...)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 05:22 pm:

My cup holder is built into my turn signal! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 06:17 pm:

Thanks a lot Kenneth, you just ruined another key board due to spit tea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 07:34 pm:

Bud - Your left turn signal with cup and all, must REALLY confuse that kid following behind you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 08:02 pm:

Not really,Driving modern in saginaw we were almost hit head on and my cup holder turn signal spoke up quite loud!! Checking out our small 5"th wheel to get ready for TOCF.After a lap or two around the section and a slosh and dump i'll hook the car trailer on the back! Life is Good! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Dvis on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 09:55 pm:

I use faucet packing from ACE hardware. Works great. Be sure to pull all of the old packing out first. When re packing avoid over tightening. Run the packing nut up to that point you feel resistance. Make another 1/2 turn and crank up. Gently tighten up the nut till the leaking stops. Avoid over tightening as it will destroy the packing. Always look at the pump after you crank up to be sure the pump is turning and there are no serious leaks. A dribble every now and then is nothing to be concerned about. I packed water pumps all my younger life.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Jesteadt on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 04:51 am:

Reading this form is better than any comedy or anything that is on tv!!! plus it opens up a world of info in a area that I'm actively involved in and the interaction between guys w/ the same intrest is priceless.. I could elaborate more but I can hardly use this keyboard,being a truck mechanic all my life I never had reason to learn this computer stuff It's a sharp learning curve but I'm trying -all because of 100 year old cars!!!Rich J


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