Had the t out today and broke the crankshaft, is this something that is common or did I do something wrong.
You probably did nothing wrong.
Welcome to the "Two-piece Crank Club."
There are two type of Model T drivers; Those who have broken a crankshaft, and those who will break a crankshaft.
When you get everything fixed, make sure you put your pan on an alignment jig and straighten it you. I firmly believe the most probable cause for broken cranks is a bent pan. If the pan is bent, it forces the crankshaft to flex back and forth with every rotation of the crank, which causes metal fatigue.
Don't beat yourself up.
Now you need to decide what you want to put back in...
: ^ )
Bummer! Hopefully it didn't harm the engine block.
The crank in question is the original 1912 crank so I guess we can't complain But it sucks. Shut her down right away, how we have to go into fix mode. First crank in 52 years.
I hear that a water pump will help out. I have gone for many a mile in the mountains with my pump and the crank is still in one piece. But you can check with Royce for the last word on pumps. Scott
I have a water pump, i'm also still running the original rad so the pump stops the boil and for the past 52 years we have ran water. First break down in 52 years
How the question what to put back in I do have some used cranks in my parts supply . what other options are there?
I think there are three kind type of model t drivers
There are two type of Model T drivers; Those who have broken a crankshaft, and those who will break a crankshaft
AND those who have Scat cranks , which dont seem to ever break. Havent heard of one breaking ..
So a T drivers pays at some point using a risky crank..
I would shoot for a new Scat counterbalanced crank myself. I hear nothing but good things about them. The only downsides are the cost, and a few minor, but easily fixable, clearancing issues.
If you're going to use a used crank, MAKE SURE that you send it off to get magnafluxed. It's vitally important for you to make sure that it doesn't have any cracks to begin with, or you'll risk another broken crank. It may also be worn oval, which means it will have to be ground.
Also, depending on how the crank broke, it could have broken some of the webbing around the main bearings. If that's the case, another block will be needed.
In any case, you'll almost certainly have to get the mains and rods rebabbitted as well.
All I can say is that the best thing to do right now is start by opening up the inspection cover on the bottom of the oil pan and see what you find. Then, start taking stuff apart!
Is a Scat crank with T-size journals any better than a T crank?
The 1912 crankshafts were made by Dodge Brothers. Mine broke 5 years ago in my '12, so don't think you are alone in this!
The early rods are quite heavy, and so are cast iron pistons. The combination of more stress on the crank might be the reason the early ones are more likely to break.
In any case, this gives you an opportunity to make the next crankshaft last longer. Use late Model T rods, and aluminum pistons. That will make it easier to balance. Lower reciprocating weight lessens stress on the crankshaft.
I have opened it up and found it has broken half way up between no2 and no3 I have no broken bits in the oil This engine does have aluminum pistons The engine was rebuilt back in the 1950s and Dad overhauled it about 1964-65 at that time it got aluminum pistons. I wonder if I can get any warranty from Ford.
The quote on your profile now is quite ironic!
My 1915 touring broke its crankshaft at Christmas , and was rebuilt before March with later 1926 - 27 crankshaft all working well and survived Canyonlands IV this past July all is now good, the car ran superb, welcome to the club , trouble is we drive 100 year old cars something is always going to break, sadly the 2 piece crankshaft club is not to exclusive but inevitable at some point in the cars life.
I think if I broke a crank, as poor as I am, I would be done.
I'm sure a scat crank is a fine part. However, I bought a used engine and rebuilt it for less than the cost of a scat crank. I was able to reuse the main Babbitt. I had the machine work done, bought the parts, and did the assembly myself.
Broke the crank in my '10 five years ago. It went right between the first two throws. No damage to the block. I went with a good EE crank that I had X-rayed because there was a void in the crank that broke and I did not want to rely on Mag Flux alone because a void would not show up and I didn't want to take a chance with an open valve block. If my crank went today I would go with a Skat crank.
Colin, as many have said, welcome to the two piece crankshaft club. I joined about 15 years ago and also with a 1912 touring. The end of my broken crankshaft was stamped DB which corresponds with what Royce said (Dodge Brothers shaft).
Just out of curiosity, have you done anything to your engine to increase HP? Cam, Z head, etc., or was it stock ?
If you rally a standard 'T' long enough you will brake a crankshaft; fact. In the immortal words of hanged bush ranger Ned Kelly "S**t happens!"
I broke one on the 1989 National 'T' Rally in Wangaratta in our 1925 "Rosella Van". I was in bottom gear, tip toed over a rough railway line and dropped her into top gear on the other side when "bang".
Arthur Mullins (now 99) here in Adelaide that has owned his 1912 since 1935 has broken 2 crankshafts; one in 1941 and the other in 1990. He commented in 1990 he was quite happy with this one as it outlasted the first one by 20 years! He also said that he has had a couple of tune-ups so what not his beloved Ford???!!!
On my next engine rebuild I will pay the money and fit a new, all steel crank.
Colin, I have magged many of cranks and the DB's are almost always cracked. I did a spectrometer on the steel of the T cranks used through the years and the DB where crap compared to the later ones and starting in 24 on the Canadian cranks, the same alloys followed up into the A cranks.
The only T's that don't break crankshafts are the ones that never get driven.
Knowing what was to come, I hoarded a supply of spares not long after I got my car, and because I drive fast, far, and often, I took out an insurance policy that would tow the car from anywhere at no extra cost.
Sure enough, seven years down the track I had to go through the procedure.
Bud The car has the high speed gear in the rear when I rebuilt the rear end I could not buy a std set but Langs had the high speed in stock But still drive the car at about 25 mph and being a 12 it is 22 hp.
Colin, The gear set may be part of the problem. Driving at 25 mph you maybe lugging a bit and the motor is not running smoothly but a bit of jerking that comes with lugging.If you drive at the slower speeds you may want to go back to a lower ratio and let the motor spin freely. Scott
A 3.00:1 will require 21% more torque than the standard 3.64:1 ratio to do the same task.
I am 100% with you on this. I briefly put 3-1 gears in my car and was totally unimpressed. Sure I had a little more top end, but so often the car was "labouring". I went back to standard gears. I want to try a 12 tooth pinion with a 40 tooth Ruckstell crown (3.33-1) to see if I like the way it drives.
It would be quite interesting to see how many of the recent broken crankshafts were being used with 3-1 gears or with Warford/Layne (or similar) overdrives
Les, Iam not sure that the overdrive is a problem if they are driven correctly and not lugged in overdrive. As I want to put a set of 3:00 in the coupe I just got. But I have a Ruckstell and I have a rocky mountain that goes in the driveline. With that many choices lugging should not be a problem. Scott
there is good news I looked under the hood and found that we do have the correct early oil can so I did start the day on a good note.
Keep in mind gentlemen that this was the original crank 101 years old and is db crank so with what has been say we were very lucky if I can get 30 years out of the next one It won't be my problem anymore. By then we could be banned from the road. The car with high gear drove pretty much the same as the std gear just a little less rpm at the top. compared to other T's around here it has always been the quickest T, even with std gears.
Colin throw a 26-27 crank in it its cheaper than the scat while your at it put some aluminum pistons and stainless valves in while its apart
The lugging issue is what I am talking about. It is a lot easier to end up lugging in top gear with 3-1's
A 3.00:1 will require 21% more torque than the standard 3.64:1 ratio to do the same task.
Today the odds are against finding an original crank that's not cracked.
Here are a few that didn't pass muster which our engine reconditioner uses as a fence now.
Yep, pay the money and buy a new crank. One less worry, particularly if you have an earlier, more valuable block.
David you are 100 % on the mark. I only wish the Skat cranks were around when I broke the crank on my '10. I would have gone for one in an instant. I put an EE crank in and hope for the best. I did the same thing when I rebuilt my '12 motor but good standard EE cranks are hard to find and I am sure they are still not as good as the Skat cranks. After all they are now close to 90 years old and are certainly not balanced the way the Skat cranks are. When you think about how much a correct open valve block would cost the Skat cranks are cheap at twice the price.
Thank you every body I did not know T cranks were a problem I do now. We now have a plan we will track down the parts and start the repairs in oct Thanks Colin
stuck the camera in the block today its still depressing sending it to the farm friday,