12 Tooth Pinion - Silence is Golden

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: 12 Tooth Pinion - Silence is Golden
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Monday, September 02, 2013 - 11:26 pm:

I replaced the ring gear with the one with the hypoid teeth. The howl is gone :-). Thank you to the forum expertise. I love this place.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 01:35 am:

Bob, is the new ring gear the 39 tooth gear the vendors sell? Been tempted to try a 12 tooth pinion but was scared off by reports of a noisy rear end. I am finishing up another Perfecto and am at the stage I need to decide.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 04:23 am:

Bob, glad you got your problem solved. Just a bit of nit picking here, but those are not hypoid teeth. Hypoid gearsets are the modern type where the pinion is located below the center line of the ring gear, thus allowing for a flatter floor in the passenger compartment. We know what you mean though. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 09:45 am:

David,

Thanks for the clarification. As is self evident, I know slightly less than nothing about gear technology.

Richard,

The ring gear was am original 40 tooth stepped Ruckstell gear. It came from my stash. I an currently running 70/145 synthetic and there is a slight noise that I attribute to the fact that this is a mix and match rear end. I think I will change to 600 wt. until the gears get to know each other. :-)

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 09:51 am:

Question - does the 12 tooth fit through the hole in the pumpkin? I know that the big 13 tooth does not, you have to split the rear end any time you want to remove the drive shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 10:17 am:

Seth,

The 12 tooth will not fit through the driveshaft hole :-(

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 01:05 pm:

Bob, Go back and read my post on your previous post. The gear you are now using is not a gear with a different cut, it is a worn out gear. A worn gear gives you more clearance. I still believe that you simply changed pinion gears assuming you would get the same clearance as with the original gear. This is wrong. Clearance needs to be reset with every pinion gear you use otherwise you may not have sufficient clearance. I have never heard a rear end howl with the proper clearance. This tells me you did not set the proper clearance with the new pinion gear and were too tight. I would install the good ring gear, reset the clearance and do it right. You must also check your drive shaft end play to insure that the pinion is fixed in position. Excessive end play will make it impossible to set clearance properly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 03:23 pm:

Glen,

Thank you for your comments on my howling issue.

When I installed the 12 tooth pinion, I did a complete disassemble - reassemble and setup from scratch of the Ruckstell. I also installed a Fun Projects adjustable pinion bearing assembly. I had no driveshaft end play after assembly.

I set the ring gear clearance at about .008. I will post a photo of the original ring gear that howled tonight when I get home. Unfortunately, I did not take a picture of the pinion before I dressed the burrs with a file.

I already put the worn ring gear in my Ruckstell. I have two tours coming up so I will not be able to readdress this issue until this November. I do very much want to get this right.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 10:22 pm:

As promised, here are some photos of the ring gear that howled.

Be_Zero_Be














Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 12:37 am:

Looks evenly wore out from not enough pinon depth--must have run a long time like that, or not hardened correctly. (Flat face of gear, but lots of meat on the ends.)
But, what do I know??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 01:11 am:

That ring gear has about 1200 - 1500 miles on it.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 12:46 am:

Bob. I do not see much wear on your ring gear but the wear that I do see is on the center of the tooth ramp and indicates no clearance between the pinion and ring gear. The gear appears to be a 40 tooth gear as all visable bolt holes are behind a tooth. Some teeth are between teeth on a 39 tooth gear. In either case the toe of the 12 tooth pinion must be ground down so that it does not hit a ring gear bolt. If it does it will cause a noise. When setting the rear end up you should rotate the ring gear 360 degrees and check clearance every 15 degrees to insure that the ring gear has no runout and that the pinion is not hitting any of the ring gear bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 12:57 pm:

Glen,

Thank you for your comments. It looks like I am going to pull the rear end back out and start over. :-(

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 03:25 pm:

Bob,
you said you set the ring gear clearance at .008.
If that is backlash then it is too tight.
Ever since Glen told me it is OK to go to .020 I have been setting the backlash to what works easily from .015 to .020".
If you set it too loose it will be too loose.
If you set it too tight it will spit teeth at higher speeds..
I have been staying to the greater backlash numbers on all differentials I do, antique or modern.
Oh, and I would leave the synthetic in.


'


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 03:46 pm:

Quietest RE I've rebuilt had 17 thou lash using NOS Ford ring and pinion gears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 08:36 pm:

Bob. Is that gear a 40 tooth or am I just missing the bolt holes between teeth? If you have any questions give us a call. Glen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 10:04 am:

Aaron,
I am leaning towards what you are saying. I thing I simply may have set it up too tight to begin with.

Glen,
It is a 40 tooth stepped Ruckstell ring gear. There was no evidence of contact of the pinion on the ring gear bolts.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 09:11 pm:

Bob, I only asked about the ring gear because if it were a 39 tooth ring gear there was a good chance that the pinion was hitting the ring gear bolts. The old 12 tooth pinion had to have the toe modified so this would not happen. Our new 12 tooth pinions have already been modified. I have never heard a noisy rear end that wasn't due to insufficient or no clearance. As I said before if you changed the pinion gear without re-checking the clearance that is most likely the source of your problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 11:03 pm:

Glen,

I am going to go one more round. This time I will go back to the first ring gear and start over. It sure is fun taking the rear end out and putting it back :-) :-)

Be_Zero_Be


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