Painting the inside of the pan etc. I hope we can keep this civil!

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Painting the inside of the pan etc. I hope we can keep this civil!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 11:50 am:

I noticed on another thread where it was obvious the inside of the pan was painted (a nice shiny black!!).
I have built many engines over the years (T and others) and have never painted the inside.
My concern has always been that the paint may start to peal and compromise the oiling system.
I have heard of people promoting the idea that it seals away any sand etc from the casting/cleaning. Also the idea that it helped the oil to drain back better


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 11:54 am:

Well regular paint may be a issue,but the Glyptol "spelling" that I read about here on the forum a few years ago is supposed to be resistant to all the problems in that application.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 11:57 am:

Les,

I am of the opinion there's no benefit to painting an area that will be filled with oil. However the folks who did a few engine blocks for me at Ron's Machine shop several years ago did paint the inside of my blocks with Glyptal. It seems to hold up well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder - Houston, Texas on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 12:02 pm:

It is designed for use inside machinery gear cases - where there is always both some heat and some lube

Great for insides of machine tools :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 12:35 pm:

I have used glyptal before. Although it is not necessary, it does provide a corrosion protection that isn't there without it. It also seal the pores which is important especially if the block was sand blasted. Lots of your high end machine tools have the innards of their gear boxes done for likely the same reason.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 12:37 pm:

I have often wondered if the pans (crankcases) were dipped at the factory as many other parts were. If they were then paint must not have been a problem.

Les, I have seen racing engine blocks painted inside with red glyp for the reasons you've stated above, and I know that GM used to paint the inside of all hydromatic transmission cases sold to Rolls Royce in the '60s and '70s, but was told that was to seal any porosity that might lead to weeping or leakage.

It is done, so I guess the only issues would be the material used and the prep of the parts to be painted.

As to the benefits beyond the aesthetics... My little dog has a coat for the winter and she doesn't seem to mind wearing it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 12:39 pm:

Forgot to mention you can buy electrical motor varnish (which is what glyptal is) in various colors including black. Graingers sells it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 12:44 pm:

I would think there is enough to do to maintain a T without doing something that you don't need to do! I know I already don't have enough time to get everything done and I certainly don't need to add to the list unnecessarily.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 01:20 pm:

Here are (2) 2010 threads documenting the coating and subsequent curing by heat of my block and pan with Glyptal. best thing I ever did. Jim Patrick

www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/151534.html
www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/152476.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 01:23 pm:

PS. Even though Glyptal is available in several colors, including clear, I like the traditional red Glyptal because it is very reflective and allows one a better, brighter view of the interior of the engine when working on it. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 01:37 pm:

$50 for a gallon of glyptal, then use the cheapest oil available----both to protect the inside of the engine,-----is there a contradiction here?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 03:10 pm:

Royce - It's about as useful as Marvel Mystery Oil but people sware by it none the less. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 03:16 pm:

Ops, that's "swear" not sware. Dang spell checker. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 07:01 pm:

In my career I was involved with lots of oilfield equipment manufacturing. We took the fresh clean castings directly from the foundry and painted them all over with a 2 part product somewhat similar to "glyptal". This was the very first step before they were exposed to ANY oil etc. Then they were machined and assembled and equipment that was being installed outside would get painted again. If it was going inside it got no more paint from us. So I am quite familiar with the concept
I try to avoid sandblasting engine blocks (sometimes you can't). In the past I have always had all engines hot tanked and them further washed in a "transmission type" washer just prior to assembly.
I can see where the "glyptal" type thing is probably OK. I don't think I will start using any ordinary paint inside stuff.

How about rear axles and torque tubes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 10:03 pm:

It has to be applied correctly and baked on. If not, you risk it flaking off and causing problems later. Also, the block has to be spotless to begin with. The net is full of first hand horror stories about the stuff being applied incorrectly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 10:17 pm:

I was under the impression it would allow oil to get back to the bottom of the pan faster as well.I do know that all the old Wisconsin small engines I have ever took apart have a red coating inside the block.The 1936 Briggs engine I had apart last year has it as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 10:24 pm:

I used the spray can of red glyptal and it has worked great. No flaking off and I would definitely use it again. Sure makes it easier to see everything and also allows the oil to flow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 10:33 pm:

Gyptol red has been on my '27 engine innards, the crankcase, lower cover, and hogshead for over 10 years. No issues.

Coating the block insides may be more work, haven't done that yet. But coating the crankcase and hogshead, where the oil collects and is throw about makes clean sense to me.

The oil drains out fast, and the red enamel painted surface won't retain a thing. No flaking.

Painted on with brush, air dried. Metal was cleaned totally with lacquer thinner, no baking at any temp needed. IMO, Gyptol does what it claims are.


2003



2013 change of wood bands to Kevlar

3 dip pan coated this year for the next project in the wings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 10:59 pm:

I still question the use of Gyptol paint in a T block, it is designed to insulate and with stand temps of 135c, that sort of insulating can't be doing your oil temp any good if that paint is eliminating heat transfer to the metals that keep the motor cooler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Floyd Voie - Chehalis, Washington on Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 11:41 pm:

The main insulating property of Glyptal is in being a non-conductor of electricity, that is why it is used in electric motors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 10:37 am:

Aside from impressing the next guy that re-builds the motor (hopefully) 30 years from now there's actually no reason for it but don't let that stop you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 01:07 pm:

All paints have thermal insulating properties. Some more than others. That's why radiator paint has a low solid and high solvent formula. It's only used for coloring but an unpainted radiator cools better. It's also why they use ceramic paints/coatings on headers--To keep the heat inside.

Ford used a low-solids wash on the engines. Perhaps he knew something about thermal properties. Like maybe thermal siphon? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 02:53 pm:

Who says oil returns faster if painted with Glyptol? Do we really need it to return faster?
The oil that sticks to the unpainted walls isn't good enough for the rest of the oil to flow down fast enough?
I am not against the stuff, I just don't think it helps anything other than seal the pores. And make it look good.

$50 a gallon and then use cheap oil you say?
Can you get glyptol for less?
Is expensive oil any better than cheap oil?
I would question why anyone would use glyptal and the put any expensive 20-50 in the T engine, or non-detergent oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 03:10 pm:

Who says oil returns faster if painted with Glyptol? Do we really need it to return faster?
The oil that sticks to the unpainted walls isn't good enough for the rest of the oil to flow down fast enough?
I am not against the stuff, I just don't think it helps anything other than seal the pores. And make it look good.

$50 a gallon and then use cheap oil you say?
Can you get glyptol for less?
Is expensive oil any better than cheap oil?
I would question why anyone would use glyptal and the put any expensive 20-50 in the T engine, or non-detergent oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 09:28 pm:

I powdercoated my 15's crankcase over a year ago--no noticeable problems yet. Is my T going to commit suicide or something? I hope my oil don't get over 400 degrees and cause the powdercoating to come loose inside my engine. It sure looks good from the outside! Anyone else out there with powdercoated crankcases?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 09:35 pm:

I powder coated the inside of my oil pan on the 09


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration