Easier to show a picture. Found this in a box yesterday under the seat frame of a 27 Roadster (or what's left of the poor car I should say). I know it's a Wiper vacuum pump. It has a brand name decal 'International'. It works (I tested the pump for suction). It has Patent dates of 1922-1926. I can't find anything about these in the forum keyword searches or other online sources. Is this a T era pump or later???
It is a wiper Motor!! Probably can fit a T windshield
I get that, it says so in my post. I'm familiar with the Trico styles but I never saw one like this before. I'm simply trying to find out if it's period correct for a 1922 or later T. Because the last patent date shown is 1926, does not always mean it's correct for a 26 T.
James, you use the word "pump" four times in your post. That is why Les assumed you thought it was a pump
I have seen pictures similar to what you post before, with the implication that they were for the T. Of course there were a LOT of accessories for the T!!.
If I owned it, and it would fit, I would put it on my T.
Ok, so is it a vacuum wiper motor or a vacuum pump to run a vacuum wiper motor? I'm still confused. What's the other side look like?
Here is a cutaway view of the vacuum pump used to power the wipers on a model T Ford.
Is it a tank/control for a early air wiper on a truck? Bud. PS,Make it home ok ED?? Bud.
LOL... I know Ed. BUT - Besides using "pump" throughout the text, Jim said this; "(I tested the pump for suction)".
I guess we're sticking to semantics. When something is powered by an external vacuum source and can't power itself, uses no fuel or electrical energy and it sucks air by driving a 'piston' I call it a vacuum pump.
Definition of a VACUUM PUMP: a pump for exhausting gas from an enclosed space.
Definition of a MOTOR:
A machine, esp. one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.
One could defend either definition I suppose. But I'll stick with PUMP
Anyway, I was only curious about it's vintage. I personally have no use for it as I build Speedster Raceabouts. I just wanted to gain some info about it if I have the opportunity to swap or sell the thing.
Thanks all, much appreciated.
1923 Auto Parts catalog
A vacuum pump on an antique car creates vacuum by either being mechanically driven by a car motor or it is electric and runs off the battery. This is neither as it doesn't create vacuum but instead runs off vacuum created elsewhere. This is a "vacuum wiper motor" the standard term used by any mechanic used to cars of this vintage.
It is a vacuum operated windshield wiper that runs off vacuum from the T intake manifold.
In the $3.95 picture ad above you can see the vacuum line going out the left side, which then runs down the windshield station to the intake manifold.
Same as on old Fords and Chevies and other cars into the 60s and later in some cases.
I have never heard of a car with a vacuum pump much earlier than 1940 when there were double action fuel pumps for keeping the wipers going when in a hard pull, like going up a hill.
The double fuel pump pumped fuel and pumped vacuum. The pump was inline between the intake manifold and the wiper motor.
In the model A days there were electric wipers and then when engines got more powerful they were not needed as much.
In the fifties electric wipers again became available, usually as an extra cost item.
Then there was Nash that ran some of their car's wipers with a speedo cable off the camshaft, and cars such as Lincoln that used the power steering pump pressure to keep the wipers running strong.
If you work that little handle back and forth
when going up steep hills will the reverse vacuum
created give the engine more power?
I seem to remember that there was 1 year of T Birds that used the power steering pump to power the wipers but I have forgotten what year. A long time ago I owned, and used as daily drivers, both a 41 and 49 Cadillac. For what it is worth both had the double fuel/vacuum pumps on them and both had wipers that would quit when you floored the gas!
That looks like a Folberth (had a hard time finding that on Google) windshield wiper motor. It looks very similar to the one original on my Paige. Most of that type have a main piece cast of pot metal and working ones are difficult to come by. I did notice in my search for the spelling that they came out about 1922. I don't think they go much beyond '27 either, so they should be fine for a model T.
I may be interested in it.
When I was a kid, I used to love the way vacuum wipers worked. Their ever-changing rhythm and sudden bursts fascinated me. When I began driving, some of the older cars I drove still had vacuum wipers. I still liked them. Any time they got a bit slow and the windshield covered in spots, I let off the gas for just a second and the blade quickly flung the spots away.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
It's pretty interesting. All of the early wiper motors I've seen are vacuum motor only. This one actually has a vacuum tank and a vacuum motor. I assume this would help the motor to keep operating on short hills, with some sort of check valve in the tank inlet.
During the era of hidden headlights, most were vacuum motor operated. Mostly diaphragm motors but motors none the less. My 79 Vette had a vacuum storage tank that stayed full (empty?) with the aid of a one way valve in the manifold vacuum line. The hide-away wiper panel was also vacuum operated.
If I had a vacuum wiper, I'd sure run a tank with a one-way valve on the manifold line. You can get the valves at most fish tank accessory suppliers. They're sold as air line check valves (anti-siphoning valves) but they work on vacuum also.
This one is $2.49 at PetSmart.
I think it is a Trico Folberth vacuum motor, typical of the T era.
Here is a Google map picture of 29 Burton Street, Buffalo, NY.
Royce. It is just a pair of vacumn pistons, no reservoir.
Paul. 69 T birds had hydraulic wipers. I had one once