OT - early K-R Wilson shop press

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: OT - early K-R Wilson shop press
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 11:19 am:

I have a delima.
I went to the scrap yard monday and there sitting near the shop portion of the place is a K-R Wilson hydrolic press with all it's parts and gauge and such.Has a cable winch to lift the table.
Big heavy job.Owner bought it for the shop and it has never made it in there.Not broke up,just has mulitple coats of peeling paint.Looks to be a good heavy built unit.
I ask and the price is 350.
What are some things other than broken parts that I need to check for?Is it possiable if the pump or whatever needs work that parts can be made or fabricated?
I would be borrowing the funds to pay for it and pay it back in a couple months and if it is not a good investment,I need to shy away from it.
If it is something worthy of refurbishing and useing,i need a better press in the shop as mine is a PongFU or WangFong brand 12 ton thing that twist like a pretsell everytime i use it.

I ask here because K-R Wilson tools were used in the model T era and alot of you folks are more familar with this type equipment than I am.I just know 350 is about what a bigger PongFU press would cost me from the Harbor Fright store.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. J. "Art" Bell on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 01:55 pm:

Mack

Canít help with your decision, but here is a 1959 patent drawing
assigned to K.R. Wilson for a hydraulic press.
The table tilts to move it up or down with the winch.



Press Vertical View


Regards
Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 02:25 pm:

Thanks.I tried to use google images to find a picture similar.It must be a 50 ton unit or above and has alot of stuff on the right side that aint in any of the pictures I have found.I am thinking now it may be air over hydrolic operated as the dot had a Dake that operated that way at work.
I am seriously thinking of takeing the plunge because this thing I have is junk and never wide enough for alot of jobs I would like to do with a press.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 02:35 pm:

Why don't you offer him $250 and see if he will take it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. J. "Art" Bell on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 02:37 pm:

You may have already found this site,
but if not itís a KRW press repair center
and has some brochures and manuals.

http://www.devinmfg.com/krwilson.html

Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 03:07 pm:

I sent them a email asking about parts avaliablity.
Thanks for that link.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 03:12 pm:

If I was closer, it would be in my shop today. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 03:16 pm:

Mack, sounds like a pretty good deal, I have had good luck finding seal kits for cylinders and such at hydrolic repair shops. They will usually sell just the parts or you can measure the sizes and look them up. May not need anything. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 04:45 pm:

I'm with Dan, that would be mine in a heartbeat! Have you priced a new 50ton press? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 05:19 pm:

I'll come and get it if you don't want it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT J STEINER on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 05:47 pm:

I just scraped one 2 weeks ago.. got 350 bucks for the metal... had no use for it anymore and nobody wanted it!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 06:52 pm:

Well, Bob, you didn't ask us pack rats and tool junkies here :-)
Take it or you'll regret it, Mack - must be way better than any new china crap press.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT J STEINER on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 07:17 pm:

had alot of lookers and even I'll deliver it locally free...but no takers. and the machine it actually worked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 08:34 pm:

Mack -- Go for it. Offer less; you might get an even better deal. The only KRW tool I have is the engine stand, and I'm in love with it every time I use it. Even if the press needs a part or two, if it's not beat to death, I'd get it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 11:39 pm:

I have a Craftsman radial arm saw here that needs some tinkering.I am trying to give it away,no body seems to want it.
I aint scrapping it,I will just tuck it somewhere out of the way.Robert,Sorry to hear of the press not being wanted.Strange how something so good can be so disregarded by people who think it has to be new and shiney.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 11:28 pm:

Mack, if you buy that press I'll send you a donation to help pay for it.
Do you accept paypal?
Hey, we're all brothers or sisters of this great Model T fraternity so I don't see any problem in helping one of our brothers out.
Any other helpers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 10:25 am:

We used a KRW press to straighten a rear axle out of my '25. Worked good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 10:19 am:

Well my dad wants to help me get it because I work on alot of his stuff and he feels like the 1 I have is junk.my neighbor has aggreed to help get it off the truck and such so I will probably go see about it next week.My tractor with forks on it will lift it off but postioning it and such will take 2.It needs a good cleaning as paint is peeling off everywhere.
I replace alot of bearings in lawnmower spindals and such to make extra money and this would be a big help.
Thanks for the advice and such folks.
I fiqured it may be a reasonable deal but then again I coulda ask and folks said, "no,those are no good,save your money" Saveing me trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 11:54 am:

No, those are no good, save your money. By the way, where did you say it was??? :-) Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 02:48 pm:

I'm sorry, but there's no good excuse to scrap old tools like this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 11:17 pm:

Thanks KEN!
IF for some reason I dont get it monday or tuesday,I will refund that back sir.
I am fiquring on going monday morning sometime after about 10 oclock to give people time to get thru the long lines that are at the yard on mondays.
I honestly cant see scraping good stuff either but it happens and sadly I cant save it all.
This press was bought at a auction to be used at the yard which is also home to a concrete plant.
Never was put in so the man said he would sell.
I will try to get him to 300.never know.Never will hurt to try.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 11:51 am:

Mack, I sure hope you get it, be sure and let us know, and if you get it, hopefully a lot of others will chip in and help you save a bit of history.
I see it as a contribution to the hobby.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 03:13 pm:

Offer him 250 then go up to 300. My 12 Ton sounds like yours--kinda useless! I got an old 30T at an auction for 100 and use it all the time. If you decide not to get it, contact me--I'm 35 mi from the Charlotte airport.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 10:11 pm:

I will be headed up to the place in the morning.My nieghbor who is more familar with this heavyer shop equipment is going to go with me and help look it over.Sometimes you can want something and get stary eyed and get it home and find a big crack or a major peice missing.I doubt that will be the case as it is supposed to be in working condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 12:10 pm:

Well it is home,it is was made 7-20-43 and is a 50 ton unit with electric pump .Model 37E
The electrical panal has been bumped,but they threw in another box.It has 2 breakers and a thermal reset.
I am hopeing it aint 3 phase!>0
But converters can be had.
Has a foot pedal.
I will get pictures up later.
It apparently is Very heavy as 40 mph was all that I felt good about going comeing back home.Ol 66 f100 feels like it has power steering!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 12:21 pm:

Mack
Great find & acquisition, thanks for salvaging
(SAVING) it.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 12:41 pm:

I was thinking about buying one of the el cheapo Northern Tool presses. You have me wondering now. Only press I have right now is the home made version in the MTFCA Transmission book, and it isn't holding up real well. Has a serious dent in the center of the bottom channel.:-(

On a related note, I turned down a rather large arbor press several years ago. It was free, but I just didn't have any place to put it at the time. I have regretted that decision 100 times.:-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman - Gold Country of Calif. on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 03:06 pm:

Talk about not being able to give away good stuff, I've been trying to give away a couple Model A transmissions for months. Even listed them on CL for free. Not even a nibble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 03:23 pm:

Well I will try to post these
The electrical portion is 60 ton rated 37-mduc-1 and is dated 6-30-65.




I tell ye what,I knew I was loaded comeing home!
The top photo is from the back side.I had backed the tractor in the shop,and then the truck,removed the tailgate and thought I would just pick up and set off.Wrong.
I am now waiting on the neighbor with a bigger tractor as mine aint the lift hieght or power to lift it.

There is some water in the system to get out.I have got to fiqure some stuff out as far as draining the old oil,and bleeding the system out.
The motor has a white wire,red wire,black wire and green wire.From what I can tell and from advice from a friend,that is 220 volt stuff.Good news as I can just set up a plug in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 06:16 am:

Mack, if you got that for $350.00 or less, you STOLE it! Good job! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 08:23 am:

325 after some talking.The electrical panal box got bumped at some point.I knew that could be costly,plus I was concerned it may be 3 phase costing me more for a converter box.
He threw in 2 more control boxes with thermal switchs I can install after I fix the dents in the box.
I did get the ram to work yesterday afternoon.So all is good except paint and electrical.
Still aint got it off the truck yet! :>0


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 11:19 am:

Mack, good to see that you got it and it does work. We now know what you're going to be working on for the next little while.

Anyone else going to send Mack a contribution? I'm sure he can use it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 11:34 am:

Thanks again Ken.I will make it ok,When they clipped my retirement in half,it makes things tight!


If this 12 ton press I have will help someone on the forum come git it to use it in your shop to work with.
It will do spindal bushings and rearch springs fine.


I will be pecking at this "new" 1 some the next while.Had a problem getting it in the building.Neighbor just brought over his 925 Cat articulator loader, picked it up with 1 fork but couldnt get it very far in the building.So I will use the floor anchors and a cable winch to pull it over out of the door way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 03:38 pm:

Mack
Just a thought, you could mount it on a small
(sturdy) trailer and make it portable. Then others could borrow it (for a price). Money in the pocket (MAYBE).

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 10:51 pm:

Ok I am stumped.
I aint a good electrical man.The spec and name plate is gone from the electric motor.
The power cord,with plug gone,is going into the Cutler Hammer control box.It has a white wire,red wire,black wire and green wire.I thought as the above post says,it was going to the motor but that is wrong.

There is several wires taped off comeing out of the motor.Only 3 black 1's are tied into the controls.
The green wire on the cord comeing in is just going to a screw on the box.
The white,red and black are going to other screws.
There is a control solinod I guess it is that when the pedal is pushed the motor should come on.This is intact.Only the thermal switch is damged.
.I have a newer westinghouse box and some of the connections are marked the same on the thermal reset.
But I am concerned now that folks looking it over trying to help me may have missed something and thought it was 220 when it is 3 phase.
The solinoid is marked 208-220.Nothing mentioned about 3 phase on it.I am getting confused with what I read on the net because some sites say if it dont have a capacitor it is 3 phase and some dont.There is no capacitor on this motor

If it is 3 phase all is not lost,just some more funds.My neighbor runs a 3 phase metal cutting band saw with a 165 dollar box on it.Seems to work well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 11:27 pm:

Mack,
My 1st 2-stage air compressor (old and free)had a 3-phase motor. All those numbers and letters on the tag/plate on the motor mean something to a real electric motor guy. He was able to use those numbers and order me a normal 220v motor that was the correct RPMs, pulley size, and even the right mounting holes! Not the cheapest way, but, definitely the easiest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 11:35 pm:

If your motor has 2 wires and a ground it's single phase. If it has 3 wires and a ground, it's likely 3 phase.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 12:54 pm:

Mack, can you give us some pics of the control box?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 02:42 pm:

Ok,I have shrunk these to fit. I got them in wrong order.The bottom 1 is the control panal on the machine.The 2'd 1 is the wireing from the motor.
The top 1 is the newer box provided.
The red reset button is broken out of the bottom part.There is a switch that when the lever is pushed or pedal pushed that makes the motor run.
2 wires comeing in the top.Red I think.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 03:37 pm:

Mack,I'm happy for you.That is a brute! Next thing you'll be pressing out repro parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 05:08 pm:

Thanks Jack.The valve repair tools you sent me several years ago,I use them alot.
I still think of how surprised I was to get a box from you and those be inside.Good stuff that helps me to make money for my projects.Like my T's.

Ken and others,http://www.ebay.com/itm/phase-a-matic-phase-converter-static-3-5hp-/221283231600
This is the unit my nieghbor runs a Do-all metal cutting bandsaw with.
Works well.I just wonder how I can determine the hp of this electric motor.I am thinking it is 5 or less.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 05:47 pm:

Those are good ones, I have had one on my Rod Spinner, and Mill for years, Trouble free.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder - Houston, Texas on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 06:00 pm:

Mack - you can see the wire number tags. Low voltage (220/230/240)three phase hook up will be thus:

Line wire #1 hooked to motor wire #1 and #7
Line wire #2 hooked to motor wire #2 and #8
Line wire #3 hooked to motor wire #3 and #9
Motor wires #4, #5 and #6 hooked to each other but nothing else

An old rope started three phase motor can be used as an idler to run this with hardly buying anything

Lots of info here on making three phase

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-vfd/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 10:59 am:

That's definitely 3 phase. From the size of the motor in the 1st pic I'd guess it's 5hp if not larger. It's kinda hard to tell by looks on them old motors.
If you can get the number off the "heater" in the box, we can probably figure out the motor hp.
You may have to remove the heater (2 screws) to get the number.
heater


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 03:32 pm:

OK,took out 2 screws,took out a pigtail looking thing with a tab on each end the screw goes in.1040 was the numbers stamped on both ends.
I guess the thermal control on the newer style box may not work because it does not have these coils on it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 12:11 pm:

That number tells us that it's rated for 14.8 to 16.6 amps, which would relate to a 5 HP motor.
In your pic of the Westinghouse box, the heaters are missing. You can see near the bottom where they would go.
The older ones use 2, the newer stuff uses 3.
The proper name for that part is "overload relay heater".
There are many variations of these things.
Do a google search for "overload relay heater" and look at images.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 08:08 pm:

Ok the other westing house box has 3 heaters in it.So I will get the numbers from them and maby that will help me determine if that 1 will work or not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 03:48 pm:

I have attempted contact with the link and company Art Bell posted about.No return emails.
I was really hopeing to get up with those folks.Need to know what Mobil D.T.E. 26 oil translates to and what points of the system to drain from other than the obvious drain plug on the tank.I fiqure something could be held up behind a valve or something.
But I cant get up with the folks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. J. "Art" Bell on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 04:16 pm:

Hi Mack

Try their 800 number
Here is their contact listings . . .



Regards
Art


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder - Houston, Texas on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 05:31 pm:

DTE 26 is an Exxon Mobil ISO 68 hydraulic oil with anti wear properties


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 09:13 pm:

Thanks!


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