steering bracket

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: steering bracket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Niels Andersen on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 06:47 am:

I have tried without luck to find reference in earlier threads to steering column to frame bracket numbered T933. - What year and model is that for?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 08:17 am:

You didn't find it because that's a factory number, not a part number. I don't find it in the parts book. If you post some good pictures of the item maybe we can ID it that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Niels Andersen on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 10:03 am:

opjpeg{388595,steering bracket} O.K.Steve This is the thing!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 11:04 am:

What year is the car that you are trying fit, the 26/27 used a different bracket than the earlier years.
Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Niels Andersen on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 11:44 am:

steering bracket
I hope this time I am successful in transmitting images.- It is a 26 project I am working on - The holes in the bracket fit the corresponding holes in the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 11:46 am:

Niels,

If the part looks similar to the one below and has T933 cast into it, it should be for a 1926-27 left hand drive USA produced Fordor Sedan. [Note the Canadian Fordor probably used the same bracket – but I do not know that for a fact.]




For additional information please see the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/116369.html?1260023502

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 11:46 am:

That one fits late 25-27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 11:56 am:

Niels,

We were posting around the same time. That appears to be the same bracket. Note it “ONLY FITS” the 1926-27 Fordor Sedans. The USA ones for sure, the Canadian ones probably but as mentioned above I do not have that documented. For Fordor sedans produced in other countries – I do not know.

Note, as pointed out in your previous thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/375948.html in Europe the different Ford Branches sometimes used some different parts. That is especially true for the Drop Frame cars.

If you are working on your speedster – you can use a shim on the frame and dash to make the steering column line up with the body you make. If you are restoring an actual car – then you need to obtain all the parts for the same year and style of car. I.e. a 1925 steering bracket will not work properly with a 1926 car – also the TT brackets were also different. And the 1926 -27 Fordor was different from the other 1926-27 cars.

Good luck with your project.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Niels Andersen on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 02:08 pm:

Hap,
Thanks so much for quality info. - I have to find another one for my project (which I described in the thread you referred to above).
I would be glad if Roger would come in here, and
tell us if the British/Danish assembled 26/27
models also had steering brackets differing from
US standards. The standard ones (except for the four door) had what Steve describe as a factory number: "932" with some letters attached.
Can anyone clear up the significance of these letters?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 08:44 pm:

Niels,

I was originally going to try and type up a short summary of the Part Numbers, Factory Numbers, and what the suffix letters added at the end meant. But that is not going to be a 5 minute project so I will go with the please see Trent Boggess’ excellent article “Releases: A Description and How They Can Be Used To Date Changes In The Model T Ford.” At one time that was posted on the MTFCI site. The links in the article no longer work (well actually they might work – but the last time I tried them they did not) but it is still available for down load by clicking on the link: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/Releases-by_Trent_---147841.doc
It was posted on the MTFCA site on the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/108790.html?1256293595 scroll down to the By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Friday, October 09, 2009 - 10:01 pm entry.


A few additional items related to the Steering Post Brackets:

Below is page 34 from the Price List of Parts dated effective Feb 1, 1915 USA Price List of Parts.



Note the Steering post Bracket with bushing is listed. The part listed for use 1909 – 1910 is listed as part number 3539 and the Factory Number is listed as 932A. Note also that it says “Steering Post Bracket with bushing.” The early 1909-1910 brackets have the number 932 cast into them. That is the factory number for the casting. There is not a letter “A” after the number. Why? Because the letters in general indicate that the part has changed enough that it is no longer a direct replacement for the earlier or other part if two were made around the same time.

Next it shows part number 3539B and Factory Number 932B and that it was used 1911 to 1915. Why only until 1915? Because that Price List of Parts is dated Feb 1, 1915 so they didn’t know how much longer the part would be used in the future. But by taking a peak at the Aug 5, 1928 Price List of Parts page 22 below we find it was used 1911 to 1925. [Note the 932C was to lower the steering column on the 1911 Torpedo Runabout and Open Runabout. The only two models that used that bracket.]



But notice that while the Part Number remained 3539B and the description was the same the Factory Number changed to 996AR. Why did that happen? Two reasons. One they started using the Factory Number for the Steering Bracket with the bushing installed rather than the Factory Number 932B which was actually for the machined casting without the bushing. Note that the parts have the Factory Number 932B cast into them from around 1911 to 1925.

So why did Ford add the “B” to the end of the Part Number and the Factory Number? Good question. At: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm#steer we learn “A new designed steering column part number 3500C was introduced. That 3500C steering column was mounted 3/4” lower at the firewall than the previous column, requiring a new steering bracket and a change in the angle of the column mounting flange.” Note Bruce has it listed as occurring in 1911 but also 1912. I suspect we need to update the year for that change to 1911 model year cars, but I will need to find some additional information to confirm that before I make that recommendation. If anyone has the factory drawing for the Steering Column or the steering bracket – they would specify it there (or on the record of changes).

Note also that in the 1928 Price List of Parts the 3539B now has the Factory Number 996AR. The “A” stands for the original drawing (at least close to the original one). The “R” indicates it had already been switched from production to “replacement” use only. Note Ford did not go to the trouble to label all the Model T Factory Drawings in the price list with an “R” once the Model T stopped production.

Below is a photo of a 1918-1925 [Gail Rodda has it listed 1917-1925 on page 30 of his Vol 1 “Model T Ford Parts Identification Guide.] It fits 1911 to 1925 but the cast Factory Number and Ford Script varied with the year etc. Mark from Model T Haven has it listed in his e-bay store. See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1918-1925-Model-T-Ford-Car-Steering-Bracket-/180766211436?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a16817d6c#ht_148wt_647 for additional photos. Note the “B” at the end is not as clear as I would like – but it is there – the Factory Number for the casting 932B . It is much easier to see the part numbers on the photos in Gail Rodda’s book.



Below is the 1926-27 Touring, Runabout, Coupe, Tudor, with the casting Factory Number T932C. Note the Ford script is on the other side and those parts also varied some. But they were designed to work with the improved cars with the exception of the Fordor that had its own part shown previously in this thread. PHoto from one of the "Vintage Fords" used by permission.



Note for a USA 1926-27 Tudor --- the bracket above with the T932C would be the correct one to use. On your European assembled car – I do not know what combination was or was not used.

One easy way to check which parts you need is to look at your 1926 Touring. What Factory Number is on the steering bracket? What other parts are there (Dropped Frame (DF) Front axle, regular 1926-27 front spindles or the DF front spindles etc.).

For why it is important to have the correct parts for the year & model of your stock T, please see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/24786.html Note the steering bracket may be shimmed to help make things fit, but in general it is nice to have the correct parts. It takes less time to install the correct parts than the trial and fit the shims etc. And at least one steering column has been bent by people forcing things to fit.

Please let us know what you discover as you examine your 1926 Touring (previously 1926 Tudor) chassis.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Niels Andersen on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 03:58 am:

Good morning Hap and everybody.
24 hours ago you and perhaps a few 4 door owners
were the only people alive, who knew what T933 was for and not for. - Now the whole world knows. - I guess a lot of folks are up this morning getting under to see what they have got. - I have been under the 26 Touring. It has T932C, so that's the one I need for my project.-Another hunting object. -Thanks again Hap and have a good Sunday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 07:12 am:

Good afternoon Niels and those who are getting ready for lunch and good morning to those who are starting the day.

Niels you should be able to find those relatively easily as it is a part that survives well. Often it is saved along with the steering column if someone removes the column and doesn't want to bother taking the pitman arm (listed in the price list of parts as part #3547 Steering Arm and Ball). And if the person doesn’t take the pitman arm off and only removes the steering column the steering bracket that is left on the frame is a robust part that will rust slowly. It can usually be cleaned up and have a new bushing installed and it will function fine.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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