Bad Rap for Grose-Jet in let valve ??

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Bad Rap for Grose-Jet in let valve ??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 08:56 pm:

A few months ago I reset the float level on my NH.

On occasion, the carb was wet with gasoline, thus the decision to check the float level.

Yes, it needed adjusting... back to the 15/64ths as per the "book".

Since then, on different circumstances, the engine stuttered, could not decide if it was electrical or fuel related. Was running without the heat pipe.... even though the intake manifold was observed frosted over in very humid weather.

Replaced the timer wires, still happened.

Yesterday, was going to replace the Grose-Jet valve with an original valve......working under the car, removing the hinge pin, the float remained on the carb. a nudge dislodged the float.

Observed that the two hinge parts that hold the float were too close together giving some resistance to the float to move freely.

Went for a 50 mile ride today, no stumbling, no repeat of former problem, ... just an enjoyable ride. The humidity was a lot less today than when I first had the problem, but will expect a problem when driving with high humidity..... if it happens at all.

So, what does this all mean ???? Maybe the "problems" with the Grose-Jet valve is only due to a binding float? The original valve part is a lot heavier than the two balls of the Grose-Jet
.... and will overcome some float hinge resistance ????

This happened on the '26 Runabout with a cowl mounted gas tank..... would like to offer to those with a conventional seat tank to check their carb floats for free movement to replicate my observations and report their findings using the Grose-Jet carb inlet valve.

There will be those who will insist the valve is junk, but it is really junk, or impeded by hinge friction ?

Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 09:39 pm:

I would hope that whoever put the carburetor together would notice the binding when putting in the pin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, September 15, 2013 - 10:18 pm:

Fred, are you kidding? he's lucky there wasn't a nail stuck in it. Or a piece of old corn cob for a float. :-)

You'll see all sorts of fixes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 07:24 am:

It's mostly the balls in the valve sticking. I worked on a guys car that wouldn't run and found the carb not getting fuel. Fuel was running freely from the fuel line. removed the float bowl and float and tried to blow through the fuel inlet with compressed air and nothing would pass through. I removed the grose-jet and had to take a small punch to break the ball loose. The carb was clean and had no other problems.Needless to say, a new style needle and seat went back in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 07:43 am:

I was told my TT had a Grose jet when I bought it. I have never needed to go into it far enough to know for sure. However, given the number of bad reports I've heard about them, I doubt I would ever put one in a carb. But I'm not gonna mess with the one that's in there until it gives a problem (Assuming that is what is in there).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 07:49 am:

I don't see what humidity has to do with a sticking Grose Jet? The jet is submerged in fuel. It's not exposed to air or humidity.

Expect any Grose Jet to fail unexpectedly and repeatedly until you replace it with a real needle and seat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 08:12 am:

My experience confirms all the anti's here. They stick. Period.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Conklin on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 09:27 am:

Grose Jet Full tank of fuel on the garage floor,thank goodness it was a detached garage with every thing shut off!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 09:43 am:

According to the receipts from the work that the previous owner paid for, the carb in my 1923 touring/pickup has a Grose jet in it. It seems to be working fine so far, but I bought a stock needle and seat from Lang's as a replacement in case the Grose jet ever gives me trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 09:49 am:

i have the ball type in both of my Kingston L-4 rebuilt by Russ Potter and have never had a problem, but the company that makes the Stipe cam also makes this type of fitting.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 11:37 am:

I have never had a problem with a Grosse Jet in 20 years.

I've learnt that from a dry fill one of them will stay open until you tap the carb, however it has otherwise never flooded or starved for that matter. I have never turned the fuel off for storage or otherwise.

Can't see the problem with them at all;)

cheers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 11:55 am:

The reference to the" humidity" and intake frosting
was the possibility of fuel mixture not being vaporized as it should causing the engine stumble, assuming the valve worked as it should.

The Grose-Jet valve has worked well in the 5 years of service in the same NH carb. This was the first time of any fuel trouble..... and it was caused by me when I adjusted the float level about two months ago.... and mis-aligning the float hinge on the carb base. Now adjusted for good clearance, float travel should not have any binding and properly work the Grose-Jet.

Won't go out in the rain today, have two distant car events before the end of the month...and if I experience any true valve problem, you will read about it here.

And by the way, I'm the one who rebuilt the carb 5 years ago. ... and now I have a problem with a mis-aligned float hinge that I caused.


Bob Jablonski


P>S> I told you to expect negative response posts
...... Gotta expect the drama ....LOL !!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 12:06 pm:

Just to add .... 5 out of the 6 events of engine "stumbling" happened about 30 seconds after restarting engine.

My thought: Grose-Jet worked as it should shutting off at specified float level. After starting engine, carb bowl gas level decreases as used by engine, stuck float keeping Grose-Jet valve partially closed resultant fuel starvation at speed till float drops being freed from "T" motion/vibration.

Like I said above, after removing the hinge pin the float stuck in position due to my prior misalignment of the carb float bracket.



Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthony Bennett on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 12:19 pm:

I have never had a problem with a Grosse Jet in 20 years.

I've learnt that from a dry fill one of them will stay open until you tap the carb, however it has otherwise never flooded or starved for that matter. I have never turned the fuel off for storage or otherwise.

Can't see the problem with them at all;)

cheers


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 01:20 pm:

Anthony,

I really haven't had trouble with mine either in 25,000 miles. I suspect that not all Grose jets are equal. Maybe some variation in manufacturing tolerances leads to some being faulty, maybe even most, but mine is o.k.

Bob,

I see no drama or negativity but then, I don't look for it either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 03:53 pm:

Bought my 27 touring ten years ago. Only issues with it was fiber timing gear and just today, a Grose Jet. Wouldn't stop overflowing. Luckily a buddy had a needle and seat and a gasket set and I changed it this morning in the parking lot. One on looker asked what I was going to do with it. I said I felt like throwing it in the grass but it would just cause problems for the lawnmower guy.

My advice is if you don't know what's in the car find out and if you know you have a Grose jet order the correct needle and seat to carry with you. Had my buddy not had that I would have trailered 275 miles for nothing.

I agree with some of the previous posters that there is no good reason to use the Grose jet over stock parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 04:27 pm:

This is one of those problems which could be caused by any of several things. Even the tab which pushes against the valve could have a burr worn on it which would cause the valve to stick. I'm glad that you found the cause of your problem. I personally haven't had good luck with the grose jets. I like the needle and seat better. But your cause is just one more thing to check when working on a carburetor. Thanks for posting.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 08:59 am:

Gary:

After 10 years of use ..." Only issues with it was fiber timing gear and just today, a Grose Jet. Wouldn't stop overflowing"

Suspect some gas tank crud keeping valve open ? Same could happen to a conventional valve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 09:03 am:

I have never had a problem with Grose Jets since I quit using them. I will gladly trade two new in the package Grose Jets for one new original type NH jet.

Those Grose Jets are big trouble. I would never buy another Grose Jet - they offer no improvement over the original part. Why would anyone want to buy one?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 09:09 am:

I cancelled my T participation in a local show today, just too much personal stuff to get done.

Next Saturday is the longest trip of the two, sponsored by my insurance carrier on their grounds, a 100 mile round trip for me ( with some diversions ), and back again with good friends.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGdUZEJzOEoybkQyWHVWbmh4dFJ pU1E6MA#gid=0

Will post here on our T engine performance with that lousy Grose-Jet carb valve, good or bad.

Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 08:10 am:

When your Grose jet fails (not if) will you stop pitching them as the greatest thing since sliced bread? This was my second experience with one of these that has failed. The other was in a Kingston L4. Did you ever notice carb manufactures ( you know, the folks that have to warrantee their products ) don't use them? Just saying.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 11:30 am:

Gary:

If you take the time to read my prior posts, the trouble was NOT with the Grose-Jet, but the misalignment of the hinge mounting on the float.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 11:50 am:

If you took time to read mine you would see the issue was with the Grose jet. 2nd issue with one (2 different cars) there won't be a third. Keep drinking the Grose jet kool aid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 11:52 am:

Gary: Venting your hatred is good medicine.

Feel Better ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 02:34 pm:

I see Bob has bought stock in another failed product line. As usual, the technical lack of merit for the Grose Jet is secondary to Bob's personal attacks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 03:30 pm:

I have used Grose Jets since they came out, and that is a lot of them.

Anybody that has had trouble with them, it can be traced to rebuilding over sight.


1. on some carbs, depends also on the design of the float seat finger, you may have to add, or subtract seat gaskets to get the Jet to be the right height from the carb body.

2. As Bob said misalignment of the hinge mounting on the float, and or worn hinge, and pin.

3. Dirt, or old gas crud build up from setting over winter.

4. And the biggest reason, I would say about 95% is when the float is adjusted for height, the float finger,(Unlike The Needle And Seat),has to ride the BALL DEAD CENTER, or it will leak.

I found this one out on the first one I did, and I also have never had trouble with any.

So if you have trouble with one, check closer!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 09:05 pm:

Herman:

Guess there will always be those who condemn , and those who take an interest in "how" and "why" something really works with other components.

Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences.

Appreciated.

Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 09:09 pm:

I only have experience with one grosse jet and it variably could stick either open or closed even after I cleaned it in several types of solvents. Out it came.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 09:22 pm:

Same experience here. I bought several Grose Jets about 15 years ago because I had several carburetors to rebuild and I thought that something new would be better than something old.

I was wrong. In each case the Grose Jet would either stick closed or open unexpectedly. I could sometimes go for a month without any trouble, then suddenly there would be a lake of fuel under the car, or it would quit with a full tank of gas while on tour. I ended up reworking original needle and seat assemblies, which fixed the problems in every case.

Since Larry Smith started making needle and seat assemblies by the original drawings there has been no reason to even consider a Grose Jet. Why bother with a product that is completely unreliable?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 10:13 pm:

All I can say, there is always a cause.

That's what happens when that dark cloud of bad luck follows you boys around.

Now me, I bought all the Good Grose Jets, and you guys just happened to get all the bad ones.

Well Golly Gee Will-a-kers Gramp-Pa, don't that just slap your Hog in the Bacon!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 11:11 pm:

I have never used a Grose jet, but I have seen a lot of folks beating on the side of their leaking Carbs on tour that have regular needle and seats. Most of our cars are driven occasionally and one that is driven over a thousand miles a year is rare. For what it is worth I donít have the time to make all of the local club tours and when I do I am always amazed at how many of the serious T drivers have carbs that over flow at rest stops. Could it be that the condition of your gas and crud in your tank has some small degree to do with this? I bet so but that does not explain the guys that drive a lot and still have this problem. I have used a regular needle and seat in all of my 4 running T's and have not beat on a carb for many, many years. However, for many, many years I have added a small bit of 2 cycle oil to my gas at every fill up. I know that some will tell me that I am stupid and am wasting money but, again I just drive the T's and don't have to beat on the carbs. Could it be that a clean tank of gas that is used only occasionally and has a bit of oil in it doesnít develop rust? I donít know but to me the results speak volumes. I think that I will buy a Grose jet and give it a try. I bet that it will work fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 11:16 pm:

My experience with the grose jet is that it did not leak, which is what they are supposed to do. My problem is that it did not flow enough fuel to make it up a good hill in my coupe. The carb would consistently starve on long pulls. After checking the fuel flow at the carb inlet I pulled the bowl off and removed the float. Fuel would only trickle through. I replace it with a standard needle and seat, no more problems. I always shut my gas off in the garage or trailer.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:53 am:

Well, sometimes you need to read the whole thread. To add to my commentary above I would bet that Kohnke has told us the number one reason that Grose jets leak. I would bet that he is right in his statement "And the biggest reason, I would say about 95% is when the float is adjusted for height, the float finger,(Unlike The Needle And Seat),has to ride the BALL DEAD CENTER, or it will leak". That just makes sense. The Grose jet consists of 2 balls and a seat. If the float pushes the bottom ball in anything less (or more) than top dead center the second ball would be pressed into the seat at less (or more) than a 90 degree angle and as such would leak. I am still going to add 2 cycle oil to my gas!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 09:12 am:

I have a few new grose jets if anyone needs one for the N/H, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 09:34 am:

You Bob, or me, Bob ??? LOL

Mine works just fine. Went for a short ride yesterday, no problems. Big ride this Saturday, 100 mile round trip ... if any probs, I'll post here. Believe I caused the "problem" with float misalignment, now fixed. Sighted the part geometry physical alignment relationship, expect success.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 05:08 pm:

Bob J.

Just because your Grose jet & mine haven't made trouble, doesn't mean that someone else's hasn't.

You seem to be saying that just because yours is fine, it's absolutely impossible that anyone else could ever have a problem with theirs. Apparently, because you decreed it so.

Similarly, I've never had any trouble with my prostate or my appendix, so I'm sure that they just get a bad rap too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 06:19 pm:

Jerry, you have hit on it. It's only old Grose jets that get plugged and stop up. Adding a daily Cialis to the gas tank and your T will be ready to go when you are.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:12 pm:

Well certainly Ted, that's just good science at play.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:50 pm:

Just because your Grose jet & mine haven't made trouble, doesn't mean that someone else's hasn't."END QUOTE"

IT's more like yours and mine haven't made trouble, what is he doing wrong that lets his leak.

If they can be shut off by hand not to leak air, they should be good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 05:02 pm:

Herm,

Why does someone have to do something wrong to allow a Grose jet to leak? Is it so impossible that some given Grose jet stops working correctly? Do they last forever? Can't they wear out? Is every one ever made 100% perfect with a 1000 year life expectancy? If so, we should suggest using them for heart valve replacement, (you first!).

Remember, I'm not bashing Grose jets here. I use one and it works fine but, to stand behind them as if their beyond fail, and to suggest that any "perceived" failure is the fault of the rebuilder/installer is preposterous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 09:00 pm:

I thought I had succesfully diagnosed this issue. Apparently I was wrong. Maybe, because of their design, they more easily plugged by a small bit of trash, more so than a conventional needle and seat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:25 pm:

Is every one ever made 100% perfect with a 1000 year life expectancy?"END QUOTE"

Jerry, we are not talking about thousandths of miles, and or years, we are talking about new grose jets put in and leaked from day one.


Why does someone have to do something wrong to allow a Grose jet to leak?"END QUOTE"

If you can't blow through the jet with it closed, what else could be the matter with it. So if it doesn't leak, you have to look at what was missed at rebuilding. The Ball is the only moving part, it either works, or it doesn't!

I have already posted of some of the things to look for.

I found one nice NH carb. with a small crack in the valve seat threads on the carb. It worked good unless it stood for 2, or 3 hours, and then over flowed. The seat gasket sealed part of the cracked.

Sure you could get a bad seat, but you should know that before you put it in from the testing.

Ted, anything plugs if you try to run a dirty fuel system, or don't use sea foam, or such when it set for a while.

Carb. seats are not any different then a guy babbitting his own engine, when it falls out, it's everything's fault but his work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 08:20 am:

"Jerry, we are not talking about thousandths of miles, and or years, we are talking about new grose jets put in and leaked from day one."

The one I just replaced had been there the entire 10 years that I've owned it and probably 7-8 prior to that with the other owner. This car has been on numerous national tours and well as a bunch of chapter tours. It has thousands of miles on it.

To make the claim that it was the fault of the installer only takes away from your credibility when such a claim is made without first hand knowledge of the circumstances leading to the item failing. I don't take it personally as I didn't install it, still, that is a claim that leaks (just like the item I replaced).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:50 pm:

Herm,

My friend, you are a master at turning people's words around to mean what you want them to.

So, I give up, you are totally correct. Every Grose jet is 100% perfect. Not one has ever been bad out of the box or has ever worn out. Every problem anyone thought they had, is because they're inept bumblers. In short, they are the paragon of perfection.

Have a good day Herm, I always enjoy your posts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:58 pm:

Gary, your reading skills are greatly lacking.

We are talking about Grose Jets that did not work for 10 minutes, not that had worked for 10 years.

I will make it as simple you you as I can. If the part, as in the Grose jet tests OK in the test not to leak air, then the only thing left is builders error.

If the part tests good and it leaks, then it is something the builder has not caught.


The one I just replaced had been there the entire 10 years that I've owned it and probably 7-8 prior to that with the other owner. This car has been on numerous national tours and well as a bunch of chapter tours. It has thousands of miles on it."END QUOTE"

SO Gary, if you put in a grose jet and it leaked, and you didn't know how to stop it from leaking other replacing it with a needle and seat, I have rebuilt I know over a hundred carbs for some of the engines we rebuilt and all worked fine with Grose Jets. So what do you think would be the the most information I could learn from you in helping me build Carbs.


It is Real simple, if the part tests good, the only thing left is the builder, period!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 01:09 pm:

The biggest thing on the Grose Jets if they leak, is the float finger has to push dead center, or the finger pushes the ball off center and the pressure is more on one side of the seat then the other, and with light pressure on one side of the seat it will leak for sure.

The same hang up can happen on a needle and seat if you don't make sure the float don't hang up the needle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 01:46 pm:

Interesting that the experience of the guys running them in the Zenith/Stromberg/SU carbs on MG's and Jags have a similar experience with them.

...................................................

I had my Zenith Stromberg carb off while doing some other work and figured I would replace the float needle valve with one of the groose ball valve types that I found in my box of inherited parts. Before doing this the everything been working fine, now gas just comes pouring of the jet. The new valve I put in was still sealed in its packaging. My question is this, does it seem likely that I the valve is bad or is there another possibility I'm overlooking?



Thanks,

Derrick

Did you readjust the float level after installing the Gross jet? The Gross jet sits a lot lower than the original needle valves and needs to be shimmed up to be close to the original height, then the float needs to be adjusted to the new height. This is not to exonerate the Gross jet, it is just unusual for them to fail on initial installation, if the installation was done correctly.

The original Gross jets were a great product. I have had them in our TD for close to 30 years without a single problem. That said, the company was sold and the product put out by the new manufacturer has had a very disappointing reputation. I would no longer recommend them to anyone.



Cheers,
Dave
http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/

.................................................

I've probably had a couple dozen carbs or more to rebuild that had Grose jets in them. Every one gets replaced in this shop.

Your mileage may vary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, September 29, 2013 - 11:03 am:

Getting back to my original post .....

I promised to report the pro's and con's of my carb float mounting adjustments.

Yesterday, I did not travel as planned on a 100 mile trip. Instead, I drove only 65 miles on an abbreviated course. This trip and the one a few days ago points to success solving the problem I caused.

I can report absolutely no problem as previously encountered. Although I saw some intake manifold frosting from ambient air humidity , no fuel starvation, no overflowing from stuck Grose-Jet, just a pleasant T trip with everything working just fine.

Thanks to Herman Kohnke for his tips, and those who sent private notes, the physical alignment factors proved for a positive result.

Thanks

Bob Jablonski


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