"Everything Ford makes is strong, durable, practical and cheap, the word Ford is a guarantee in itself."
(picture of what looks like a 1925 low european sedan)
"4-door sedan. Price Kr. 4975"
"Now is the moment to choose a car. There are thousands of offers, but for those who don't want to pay luxury prices - with a higher tax - there are no more doubts. There is only one car that is economical, durable and practical and that is Ford. - the four door sedan is with its modern practical and beautiful features the best closed car for Danish circumstances. That's why we see ten Fords for each of the competitors."
(price) 4975 crowns
"The price is f.o.b. Copenhagen, without delivery costs. Tell your closest Ford salesman and let him demonstrate a sedan."
"Only authenticated Ford salesmen and repair shops has guaranteed genuine Ford parts and fixed prices."
Well done, Roger, even by a Swede :-)
For the womdering mases I can add that the Nordic languages are as much alike that with a good will we can read each others text. Understnding it spoken is another stor :-)
Thanks Michael I'm used to Danish and understands at least half of what is spoken, (more if it's sjællandsk, less if it's jysk) but my wife coming from further up north can hardly understand a word
Now, looking at the picture a second time , I think it's a regular high radiator 1924 Fordor pictured.
You guys amaze me. I do good to speak English. I know enough German and Spanish to order in a restaurant, but that's about it. And here we have a Dane and a Swede having a conversation in very good English. Is this a great site or what?
Herb -- thanks for posting the advertisement!
I agree with your second look, I believe it is the high radiator 1924 style with the standard height chassis. You can see the wishbone below the axle which the standard style used while the drop frame had the wishbone above the axle.
Of course Ford illustrations were often reused as long as they were close enough. The Norwegian Drop Frame advertisement at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/289192.html does not show enough detail to see if the wish bone is above or below the axle. But it does clearly show that it has a standard rear door on that touring -- and the drop frame touring had a cut out on the rear door so it could open over the rear fender. So in that Norwegian DF advertisement on the other thread they apparently used the previous illustration or a USA illustration rather than drawing up a DF illustration.
Note the high radiator 1924 style was introduced in England late in 1923 and then later at the beginning of 1924 the drop frame style was introduced (ref pages 153 & 154 of "The English Model T Ford Book") I do not know what time frame the Copenhagen, Denmark Ford Factory introduced the high radiator or when it introduced the drop frame style using the DF parts from England. I would assume the DF came out in England first and then in other parts of Europe – but that is only a “GUESS” on my part. If anyone has some additional information on that, it would be greatly appreciated.
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One specific export/overseas only feature I can imagine on the pictured car is nickel plating on the radiator shroud and headlamp rims.
How much in USD is KR 4975? Jim Patrick
Currently it is $890. However, you need to look at the conversion back in the day. Probably higher than $890.
My understanding is that Denmark currently has a 100% surtax on the purchase of a new car. So if the cost is 10K you pay 20K. Michael, correct me if I am wrong.
Until the North Sea gave up it's oil, Denmark had no natural resources for oil and gas. All of it was imported. Not good for balance of payments. After all, how many Danish cookies can you buy that makes up for the exchange of gasoline?
Automobiles have been a beloved taxation object in Denmark since many years. After WWII in particular as the economy just was not for importing such luxury as cars. Basicaly no cars factories was left after the war so it costed foreign currency to import cars. The taxation is pretty complicated - large trucks are not taxated commercial vehicles like smaller trucks and vans are taxated 100% (buy one - pay for two) and cars for private use 180% (bay one pay for 2½). There are diverse deductions for safety equipment and similar and you do not pay 180 for the full amount so 150% is probably more like it.
Regarding english knowledge in Denmark, Norway and Sweden (and Holland for that matter): In all these countries we do not dub TV or movies except for children. That mean that we are used to listen to english/american. We start now learning english in 4. grade or some places even earlier.
In Germany, Italy, France, Spain etc etc they dub TV and movies and see how good they speak english :-)
Hap: In the danish Model T sparepart catalog from 1930 all the DF parts er marked for year 1925.
Oh - I forgot to mention - the danes are the most happy people - again - so there must be more to happiness than the price of a new car :-)
The fact that speakers of one Nordic language could pretty much read the other two always fascinated me, and I couldn't exactly conceive of how it worked. Then I learned Dutch well enough to speak, read and write it pretty fluently. At some point, I encountered Afrikaans and it became clear to me how it works. I can read most Afrikaans, but can't speak or write it.
I can read Afrikaans, but I can't write well.
Ik kan Afrikaans lezen maar ik kan niet goed schrijven.
Ek kan Afrikaans lees maar ek kan nie goed skryf nie.
And due to the historic contacts in the frisian areas in southern jutland, North west Germany and the Netherlands several of the words in the last two lines above I would understand.
In danish it would be:
Jeg kan læse Afrikaan, men jeg kan ikke skrive det.
It's all Greek to me!
It all make sense to me. I grew up in a part of California where Mexican Spanish is spoken often, but I only learned a very little bit at that time. In high school, I took German. Never got to the point of being fluent, but can speak, read, and write German a little bit. Eventually, I did learn a bit more Mexican Spanish. Spanish and German along with Saxony are the roots of the English language. I have since learned and can now speak a bit of Spanish, however because of the similarities to English, I can read Spanish fairly well. But unless someone will be very cooperative, and speak very slowly and clearly, I cannot understand nearly as much spoken Spanish as I can speak.
Linguistics is a very interesting subject. I really don't claim to be any good at it, but I enjoy it. I have read a few other languages related to German. I occasionally listen to things in related languages. The differences vs the similarities is fascinating.
I would imagine that German would be like English. "Different nations separated by a common language." The meaning of that old saying is simply that although the language is basically similar, the nuances and variations by regions and spelling differences makes them all different.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Thank you for your input that Danish Model T spare part catalog from 1930 has all the DF parts marked for year 1925.
I'm still trying to better understand when the DF parts were used and where. At the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/375948.html Roger Karlsson posted on Monday, July 22, 2013 - 08:12 pm:
"..., almost all the '26/'27 T's I see here in Sweden has the drop frame front axle and wishbone - but usually the standard US 26/27 spindles.
In the Swedish 1926 part list they specify the drop frame spindles to be used on 1926 European made cars also, but maybe they dropped ( ) that idea early on since 26/27 spindles are so common here?"
Again thank you for the information from the 1930 Price List of Parts.
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Dick, being able to read and speak the various Nordic languages may be commendable. It is far more difficult to read, understand and speak American, English and Australian.
Allan from down under.
Hap, I'm sorry I mistakenly mentioned the drop frame cars in this thread, but here's the page in the 1926 swedish parts list where the drop frame parts are listed:
There are eight chassis part numbers marked with crosses that were supposed to be used in both 1925 and 26 drop frame cars and sixteen part numbers = fenders and fender brackets that were exclusive for the '26 (and supposedly '27) european low model. Many more body parts were special for the '25 DF cars - fewer were sold than anticipated, so the investments in special tooling was cut for the 1926 version, I guess.
See this thread for an example of the special fenders for 1926 DF cars: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/305414.html?1344781023
Here's a partial translation:
Low model for 1925
30001.... Frame member RH 1925
30002... Frame member LH 1925
30003... Cross member, rear 1925
30005... Rear cross member reinforcement, RH 1925
30006... Rear cross member reinforcement 1925
30201... Front axle, lowered 1925-26
30209... Spindle arm, RH 1925-26
30210... Spindle arm, LH 1925-26
30214... Spindle, RH 1925-26
30215... Spindle, LH 1926-26
30230... Front Wishbone 1925-26
30240... Front spring perch, RH 1925-26
30241... Front spring perch, LH 1925-26
30310... Drag link 1925
30510... Pitman arm 1925
30654... Rear axle housing, RH 1925
30655... Rear axle housing, LH 1925
30750... Front fender, RH 1925
Will continue when I've got more time
I have no idea why they had a special rear axle housing listed for the 1925 drop frame cars? All the lowering in the rear was accomplished by the deeper rear cross member. Another thing I miss in the list is the deeper crossmember for 26/27 cars recently discussed in this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/375948.html
Fair dinkum, Allan....
I’m actually glad you initially thought the Fordor might be the drop frame version. If it was a 1925 European model year advertisement it easily could have been a DF illustration (or they may have saved money and used last year’s illustration). It opened up this discussion of the drop frame (DF) cars again and I’ve gained a few additional pieces information and several more questions to pursue. One of those new questions is the same one you have. Why did the 1926 Swedish Price List of Parts have a different left and right rear axle housing for the 1925 cars?
Would you please confirm what “ARS LAGA” means as it is used on that page? And is that a supplement to an earlier Price List of Parts?
Ah the dreamer Hap. What about a museum that had one of every model and year of the Model Ts from all over the world? Bill Gates could probably fund that one, but for most of us that would be out of the realm of possibilities. But a virtual online museum doesn’t take up near as much garage space and it doesn’t require nearly as many battery tenders or insurance. And it could be great entry point to the information on that car/year/ etc. One more item on the “to do list.”
Again thank you Roger and everyone else for helping us gather additional information about the cars and how they were produced.
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I am in the process of catching up on e-mails and forum posts after a trip to Sweden and Norway that lasted from August 26 to October 10.
I noticed your question above and that Roger hasn't given an answer yet. I know nothing about the source, but I can translate.
"ÅRS" means year and "LÅGA" means low, so "1925 ÅRS LÅGA MODELL" translates to "1925 year low model".
And yes, I did drive my '26 Touring a couple of short trips while in Sweden. She ran quite well, even on "MAG" with coils rebuilt by Brent Mize. Just wish I knew how to determine if she was built in Copenhagen. I put 2500 miles on my 40 year old Beetle, and a good time was had by all!
Thank you for the reply and translation. That helps be better understand the Price List of Parts. Sounds like you had a great time in Sweden and Norway!
Somehow I missed your earlier postings about your “1926 Touring” that is still in Sweden and that you were trying to confirm that it was built/assembled in Denmark and if not there, to figure out where it was assembled. Puzzle pieces – perhaps you have enough of them to piece together the past? Or perhaps the next few you discover will lead you to the answer. Depending on what you know of it’s past and which parts it currently has on it that are original to the car, you may be able to eliminate some countries/plants and limit it to the most likely plant or plants it would have been assembled. If you would like some help with that, you could start a new posting or if you would prefer not to do that on line – feel free to drop me an e-mail [if you click on my name, it brings up my profile and my e-mail address is the third line down].
For example you mentioned that the first license plate on your car was documented to have been "A-966", so there were less than 1000 automobiles registered in Oslo, Norway, when it was first registered. You guessed it was probably brand new then.” That might lead to when it was actually registered which may help you know if it was already a used car at that point or a new car.
Again thank you for the translation and welcome back to the USA!
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