Pedal Shaft Seating in Band Ears

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Pedal Shaft Seating in Band Ears
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:11 am:

It seems to me the brake and reverse pedal shafts should seat lower into the groove in the band ears here. Please let me know what you all think, and if I may be in any trouble. Also if you might have a solution (if it's a problem). Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 06:19 am:

They will settle deeper as they are tightened. The band has to compress for the ears to even up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:31 am:

New ( to you) band liners ? They look to me similar to the Montgomery-Wards woven band liners that were a bit thicker than Ford issue. They will have to soak up some oil, compress and wear-in before tightening your adjustment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:32 am:

Looks OK from here. How does it drive?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:49 am:

Dave:

Transmission area looks very clean, no oil..... is this a engine re-build you're doing ? Bet you're concerned about not having a few more threads under those band nuts.... pour some light engine oil, or Marvel Mystery Oil, over those band directly and work those pedals to saturate the liners... repeat a few times... bet you'll find a a few more turns on those adjusting nuts.


Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 09:51 am:

Hi: Looks like the lining material is sticking past the end of the metal band. Did you rivet both ends of the lining first and then work the excess length into position before riveting the center.? If you started at one end or cut them off to length they will wear out very fast as they tend to drag in the center. It may also make the bands not seat well and cause the nuts to not run down far enough. The linings should be set flush with the ends of the steel bands. Similar to Goldilocks in the three bears story. "Not to long or not to short" Donnie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:02 am:

On my new Kevlar bands installation instructions, they wanted the lining material to extend past the band about 1/4" on one side, as it lessened the tendency to catch on the drum and fray.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:07 am:

Donnie,

I always heard you should have 1/8" to 1/4" (3mm to 6mm) of band extending beyond the end of the band. That way, the band end is not likely to come in contact with the drum.

The crucial part of riveting the new bands in is to be sure the band always follows the curve of the steel band, that it never goes straight from rivet to rivet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 11:58 am:

Thanks for all the comments and info.

The band linings are new (to me). These were on Ebay in an original green box. The engine/tranny is out of the car, so can't tell how it will run yet. After reading about everything I could find on band linings, I installed them using the loop method, riveting the ends first, then working the material down to the band. I left an 1/8" at the ends to prevent contact with the drums, as noted in a few comments. I soaked the in ATF overnight before I installed them (you can see the pinkish color on the material). Just wanted to be sure I hadn't messed-up somehow before I go any further. Thanks again!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:13 pm:

There are no such concerns with wood band linings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:19 pm:

Ralph, thanks. If I had some experience driving a T, I may well have gone with wood linings. Given everything I've read, I decided to go with cotton for my first set. May well go with wood for my next set though!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:37 pm:

When I put Kevlar bands on a fresh rebuild after I rivet the linings on I soak them in oil overnight and then after they are installed and before I put the hogs head on I use C-clamps to tighten the bands around the drums. I tighten the C-clamps a bit more each day until they have compressed and conformed to the arc of the drum. I find that doing that makes it easier to install the hogs head and gives me more threads to play with on the pedal shafts. It also usually gives a good pedal adjustment from the start so that I usually do not need to adjust the bands more than once after installation. I may be wasting my time but it seems to make things easier for me and like chicken soup, it may not help but it sure won't hurt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 12:42 pm:

Dave Barker:

Sounds like ya done right ! Follow my suggestion for oiling & lining compression... need to get some more threads under that nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:03 pm:

The old Wards, Sears etc linings are thicker than the modern ones so the nuts will be threaded farther along the pedal shafts. As long as all the inner threads of the nuts are engaged with the threaded shaft you'll be fine.
Re your question, if the transmission cover was out of the car and the bands could be easily easily removed, I might be tempted to remove and spread the bands so there is more upward and outward pressure on the ears. That may make the ears ride higher, but it may not. But since the transmission cover is already installed, I wouldn't worry about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:10 pm:

Thanks, Bob. It's hard to tell how tight they'll need to be adjusted, as the whole engine is tight now, cranking it over by hand. I read in the MTFCA tranny book to adjust them so that the pedal stops about halfway in it's travel, and that the bands should run loose to prevent drag. I'll need to get the engine/tranny back in the chassis to make the next adjustment to where they should be, but I'll keep oil on them and keep working the pedals in the meantime.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:52 pm:

In your picture, the 3 left side bands do not have the band lining far enough out past the end of the band. They will dig into the drum!


Dave, the Right side I can't tell, but what side do you have the removeable ears on the bands on.

The band ears should also snap over the ends of the bands.

By the picture they look like they are not all on the left, and not all snaped in to place, but it might be the picture?

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 04:22 pm:

Herm, thanks for the note. I think it's the angle of the photo that makes it appear that way. I left equal amounts on both sides. The removable ears are on the driver's side. Can't see in the photo, but I have three different styles of removable ears; one has the longs rectangular tangs, one had the round nubs that snap in, and one had the round nubs, but they're on the ears instead of the band. Goes together the same way, but you can't see them since the nubs snap into the band instead of the other way around. (Definitely aftermarket at some point.) Also, the bottom tangs of the ears do seat over the end of the steel band.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 04:26 pm:

Dave, the bands should be adjusted so that the pedals stop about an inch from the floor boards.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 04:30 pm:

I just bought a set of those Wards bands to put on the shelf for the day I'll need to replace my bands. I'll be very interested in how they work out for you, please keep us updated, thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 09:00 pm:

Will do, Mark.

Stephen - I've heard/read that before, thanks. I'll have a better idea where they need to be adjusted when the engine/tranny is back in the car (hopefully in a few weeks). It's on an engine stand now.


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