....and Ford reduced the cost to dealers to help with sales.
In the spirit of "full disclosure", I knew there'd be days like this. Does anyone want to take a guess on which two Pre T models?
I found this in the Ford Motor Company board minutes. If anyone would like to see the board information let me know and I'll put it on this thread when I get to it tonight.
I would go for the Model R and S (not sure which S version).
....aw shucks Rob. That's gotta be the Model K.
Thomas, no, they were great sellers. Both seemed to 'fly" off the shelf.
Oh well, I actually feel worse for a friends who have them than for myself. What's the proverb, "pride goeth before the fall"?
I'm rushing around finishing some work, then a cross country event. I'll copy the documents and post tonight.
Looks like another sleepless night for Rob!
Are you sure you don't have insomonia? ;)
OK, I can't either spell or type, one or the other...meant INSOMNIA!!! you knew that.
Not sure anyone wants to hear about it. I found two models that Henry Ford and the board had to reduce the price on. Of course when your "trying to change history" it's difficult to let the facts get in the way . I'll get this stuff together, pour a stiff drink, and put it on if anyone isn't too "numb" from this information dump.
I was surprised I missed it in all the material I'm still sorting through.
Keep up the good work!
Hap l9l5 cut off
Hap, Thank you.
OK, let's begin with this one. While reviewing Ford Motor Company Board of Directors minutes, I came across the October 1904 meeting where prices were set on cars. The way Ford set prices was to set a "retail" price, then set agent (dealer) commissions. Commissions as of 1904/05 were 20% of the cars retail (list) price. Then, based on volume (and this number changed a few times) an agent could earn one to five percent more.
For this article I'll just use a flat 20% of list rate.
Prices were set at the directors October meeting as follows:
Retail pricing set on October 28th, 1904 for Ford cars.
Model:....................Retail.......Cost to Dealer (-20%)
..C w/o tonneau.......$900...............$720
..C w/rear door.......$1000...............$800
*C w/side door.......$1025...............$820
..F with tonneau.....$1200...............$960
..B complete......... $2200..............$1760
A price of $1050 was also set for Model E, delivery wagon.
At this time, the Model B is not complete, and will only have a few units sold by the end of calendar year 1904.
Now, let's move to the May 16, 1905 Board minutes:
As it turns out, the "problem" that agents (dealers) have complained to the board about is, the "small demand of the two cylinder models."
Had someone suggested to me that I would find complaints by Ford dealers to the board of directors in 1905 about "lagging" sales of a model, I would, of course, have guessed the Model B was the problem.
However, nowhere is the "big car" mentioned. The problem lies with the two cylinder models. And the board takes immediate action and reduces the price of all the current two cylinder models (by this point in time, Model A is almost completely discontinued).
Following are the effects per model (change in cost per model to dealer):
The resulting sales price:
Model:........ Revised Cost to Dealer......Price Reduction:
....C w/o tonnneau.........$570.......................... $150
....C w/rear door...........$625...........................$175
....C w/side door...........$650.......................... $170
....F all models..............$775...........................$185
....B complete.............$1760............ ........unchanged
And, it will be a "team" effort. Dodge Brothers agree later in the minutes to take a lower production price for the chassis and parts they are making for models C and F.
Meanwhile, Model B is now in full production. 500 Model B cars were contracted for, and that is the estimate for production. Only a few were sold in calendar year 1904 and a few will be carried over to 1906 and 1907
I'm working on a detailed timeline of Model B. It appears sales for 1905 were about 420 to 470 cars. If so, Model B, as with the first two years of Model K sales, are a big success, and helping financially to put Ford on the path toward the Model T.
(All records and statistics courtesy of THF Ac 85, Box 1)
By now you should be aware that searching for and locating the facts is often not a good thing, especially when they don't support common knowledge or perception.
The concern is that well established historical accounts of events could end up being turned upside down! Then what?
Why don't you simply accept first person accounts written years after the events occurred, and repeated often, and let sleeping dogs lie?
What are you thinking?
The one common denominator shared on this forum is a love of the Model T.
It think it's wonderful that Rob is finding out so much factual information (yes, I'm surprised somewhat when his factual discoveries refute accepted history because of how well I thought FMC's history had been recorded and maintained) about the chain of events which led the people responsible for the creation of our T's.
Seeing FMC's historical, progressive events presented more accurately doesn't take me out of my comfort zone; it enhances it.
I agree, let history remain as written. not as observed.
Myth: Model T number one no longer exists. FACT: Henry had it buried at Fairlane with a headstone.
Myth: There were over 900 Model Ks built. Fact: There were only 90 built. Ford kept moving them around from dealer to dealer to make it look like there were more.
Myth: There were over 15 million Model Ts. Fact: Only 14,400,000 were built and sold. Fact: Henry had the records altered.
Myth: The "15,000,000" Model T is in the Ford Museum. Fact: Edsel wrecked it driving it on the oval test track. The one in the museum is a replica.
And so own. One should write a book exposing all the errors in written history.
My wife, kids and I toured Fairlane back in the summer of '96; I wish I'd known about Model T No. 1 being buried there.
Is the location known?
Let me know, please.
Its actually buried with Henry at St. Martha's Episcopal Church on Joy Road, just west of Greenfield in Detroit. There is a monument to it in the stained glass windows of the church.
(Not really buried there, of course, but the stained glass is real.)
I better go put on my boots before this post gets any longer. It is starting to get deep in here.
What was it Henry said about history? Explains a lot.
This is what historical research is all about. First impressions are seldom entirely accurate and often discount the underlying causes and events that shaped the events themselves. Keep up the great work Rob! What is emerging is a complex picture of a company in flux, and a view of how rapidly emerging technology shaped their decisions as well as the market place's reaction to them. Very interesting!
Thanks guys. I'm not sure we're really changing anything (history) just bringing awareness to some parts and possibly filling in some of the blanks.
Next up - Model B, the forgotten Ford.