No gas?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: No gas?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 05:42 pm:

I have a 1915 roadster that used to run like a charm, but........ a few weeks ago I removed the transmission cover to fix an oil leak. In order to do this I had to remove the exhaust and intake manifolds. When I got the car back together it wouldn't start so I went trough the usual checks and found I was I was not getting enough fuel to the cylinders. I figured I probably hadn't installed the manifolds properly and had a vacumn leak so I ordered new gaskets (copper ring type) and replaced the gaskets taking extreme care in installation, torqueing the manifold bolts evenly 5 lbs/ft at a time. I am very confident I don't have a leak at the block. I also replaced the gasket at the carb and installed it using shelac.
After all this I opened the throttle 1/2 way, opened the needle valve 2 1/2 turns and choked the car multiple times all with the ignition key off. This was to assure I was getting gas to the cylinders. I choked it until the float bulb was full and then kept choking. I removed two of the spark plugs and they were dry. Stuck my finger into the spark plug hole and felt around the intake valve. The cylinders were completely dry. Can't figure out what I could have done. Took the carb apart and can't see anything that jumps out at me. Needle looks good. Float is free and working. Any help? Any ideas? This will not be the first time this forum has bailed me out. Thanks, Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 06:07 pm:

Donald
Check that there's gas (new) in the tank,
check your shot off valve, then if no gas disconnect the gas line to see if you have gas flow to the carb. if all is OK then put your hand over the carb. and crank to see if it gets wet with gas. I've found one of these things that I've forgotten. Hope this might help. You can also try some starter fluid.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 06:16 pm:

Bob, The car will start on starter fuel or gas poured into the cylinders but won't stay going. I have plenty of gas and gas is getting to the carburator. Thanks for the thoughts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 06:28 pm:

Gas must not be getting from the carburetor to the engine. What carburetor do you have? I am only familiar with the NH and L4. When you open the drain on the carburetor, does gas drain out like mad or is it just a trickle?

Since it all started when you removed and reinstalled the manifolds, that is likely to be your problem. I think you need to start from the beginning and retrace your steps, remove the intake and look at your gaskets and see if one slipped when the manifolds were installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:02 pm:

Don,

You are doing the right things to try and figure it out -- you will get there soon.

If you spray the starting fluid into the carb, have fire extinguisher handy (or an airmaze etc. filter in case it back fires) and then crank the car with the ignition on, it should start. If you didn't chock it or put the emergency brake on and if you have 30 wt oil in it you may get to see what many old timers routinely saw before the advent of multi-weight oil -- the car will tend to move forward.

If the car doesn't start at all -- then the problem is somewhere between the carb and the cylinders. As Ted mentioned above, you can place your hand over the carb opening while someone cranks the car and you should feel some suction. If you do not -- then look for the obstruction. A leaking intake manifold gasket can cause some issues -- but normally the car will start -- just not run very smoothly.

If the car starts and runs but stops because it ran out of fuel -- similar to when you put the gas in the cylinders, then the problem is getting the gasoline to vaporize properly in the carburetor. If that is the case, when you said earlier in the posting that you know gas is getting to the carburetor -- did you confirm that by opening the carb drain valve and you have a good flow of gas? Or if you used some other method, please let us know what you did. If you have not checked to make sure you have a good stream of gasoline coming out of the carb drain when it is opened then please perform that check as Ted mentioned. You want it to flow out quickly and continue to flow (a pan or bottle etc. to catch the $3 plus a gallon liquid is recommended.) Also be sure not open flames or sparks etc. near by.

And please let us know what you discover is the cause or causes of the problem.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l95 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:07 pm:

Maybe the float valve in the carburetor is stuck? Have you checked to be sure there is fuel in the carburetor by opening the carb drain and checking for flow?

I don't quite comprehend the statement "I choked it until the float bulb was full". The float BOWL should be full without any choking or cranking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:21 pm:

That's what I'm thinking also - float needle sticking shut for some reason, float drops but needle stays stuck.

A lot of Carter carbs (like the AVS in my 1971 Plymouth GTX) have a little clip that attached the needle to the float arm so that when the float drops, it forcebly pulls the needle off its seat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:38 pm:

O.K. I will try to answer all questions. First, I do get a good steady stream of gas out of the float bowl when I open the drain. ( bowl is what I meant when I said bulb. Second, I have not tried putting my hand over the carb opening when I crank. Will try that tomorrow. I have an NH carb. My gut thought right now is something to do with the float valve. But if the float bowl is full than the car should start and run until all that gas is gone correct?. I can't stand it I am going up to my garage right now and check the gas flow again and will get right back.
Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:39 pm:

Assuming no vacuum leaks, if after fully choking for multiple times and no gas was running out of the carburetor would seem to indicate a problem in the carburetor. Do you have a spare carb?

The other long shot is no compression/valve timing. You need compression and correct valve timing in order to suck gas/air into the cylinders. Can you feel any suction at the carburetor inlet when the engine is cranked over?

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:46 pm:

I have plenty of gas flow out of the carb. Drained about $2.37 worth into a bucket. Too bad, that would have been to simple.
Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:52 pm:

If all else fails, and unless I missed it, nobody has talked about the setting of the needle valve. Unless you know that it is set exactly where it needs to be from previous experience, gently close the needle valve (gently so as not to damage the the fragile end of the needle) and open one and one half turns. If no start then, experiment by quarter change increments both ways from one and a half turns open.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:58 pm:

Don - I DID miss something! You said you opened the needle valve 2 1/2 turns. I think that's much too rich. Try 1 1/2 turns open as I stated above. All three of my T's are about that setting, and the "range" from too rich to too lean is about 3/4 of a turn. If your is roughly the same, 2 1/2 turns open is much too rich,.....hope this helps,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cary Abate on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 08:04 pm:

Did you check the manifold to see if perhaps a spider hasn't produced a nice web in there for you. Or a lost rag.

Cary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 08:32 pm:

Take the carb off and make sure the spray needle jet is open. Could be a piece of crud has come loose and is blocking the hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 07:44 am:

I agree that 2-1/2 turns sounds excessive, but if the plug and cylinder interior are still bone dry, there's something else going on. I would think choking it with the mixture open 2-1/2 turns would result in gas pouring out of the carb inlet. If there's fuel in the float bowl but none any further downstream, I'm thinking there is a blockage in the fuel passage inside the carb. While it could be a lack of vacuum due to a manifold blockage, he said it would start with starting fluid, so it must be sucking that through the manifold. My money is on the carb like Mark said above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:46 pm:

Did you check the intake manifold? Perhaps some small animal built a nest in there while it was off?
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:43 pm:

Any luck, Don?


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