I was checking Lang's catalog and noticed they are selling an aluminum hi-comp head with Sherman style combustion chambers. Does any one have any experience with this new head? There is a "P" cast into the head. Is the Kevin Prus design?
There are some older Forum posts regarding the Prus head. Does any one have further experience with the Prus design? I would be using this head on a T engine with modified ignition, cam and a Winfield S carb.
I used to have a Sherman SuperFire on the speedster, but that head is not allowed in the SCVMTFC Endurance Run. I really liked the power the Sherman produced. I have a Z head but am very hesitant to use it due to head gasket overlap into the combustion chambers.
If the SCMTFC won't allow the Sherman, will they still accept the Z head? Being aluminum and modern manufacture and all.
I would not build an engine or a car for that matter just to qualify for one event.
This head looks like the Prus head indeed: http://www.modeltford.com/item/3001HP-14.aspx
Nothing wrong with it, but it's kind of false marketing to claim it has 8:1 compression or that it's Sherman style - it's actually lower in compression ratio than the sherman, it's about the same compression ratio as the Z head = 5:1, but may give more hp than the Z according to tests, maybe due to lack of the cut in the combustion chamber shape the Z heads has.
I've never heard about any problems from the head gasket protruding into the combustion chamber on the Z heads, only reported problems here is the fitting sometimes needed to get clearance for the pistons.
I have a Prus head I've sent to a friend for milling 0.100", but he's kind of slow.. I figure it'll be a true 6:1 afterwards, but you can't be sure it'll hold up when modifying stuff.. I have milled the pistons partially for clearance
The SCVMTFC rules are not perfect. They are intended to move the restoration and preservation of model T era speedsters and racers back to being more era correct. Sadly for me, I have not been able to be as close to their planning and activities these past few years as I was further in the past. I do recall a lot of discussion about the Sherman style heads. However, I don't know what the current group opinion is. I hope someone closer to this will post better answers.
The biggest issue with the Sherman style heads is that they are very obviously a modern design and look. At best, they have a '50s hotrod look about them, and can be seen from some distance. Part of the issue is the obvious appearance of being "not of the era". Even the Lizard head was not banned from their run, even though it is a modern design, because the overall appearance is not that different than a stock head (in spite of the plugs being located off to one side). Discussions generally agreed that if someone were to cut off all the fins, and paint the Sherman head an appropriate color, it would be allowed as it wouldn't look much different than a Ricardo head.
Many, many cars are built by many people to qualify for specific events. Doc Pruden (spelling?) built several Ts specifically for the Long Beach Hill Climb, as did several other people. Certainly, many, if not most, racing cars built are built to qualify for a specific set of classification rules.
And can restoring such a car to be mostly "era correct" be wrong? The SCVMTFC Endurance Run nearly died because they let anything go for many years. Nearly all the good cars stopped going because it wasn't enjoyable enough for the people with nice cars to go and see mostly stuff that was more Rat-rod than antique. Attendance for several years was always below 20 cars, with a low of less than 14 cars. Attendance has been down again in part because of the economy, but is still more than twice the lows.
The meeting is TONIGHT! I wish I could be there, but family needs and distance and gas costs will keep me away again. If someone is close enough, and wants to go, call me nine 2 five, 9 eight oh, six 9 oh 8. (oh=zero).
I want my cars to be close to era correct.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Wayne, no disrespect meant. You are right about the SCVMTFC rules and you are also correct about period correct being the way to go. My little number 22 runs so well with its Stromberg 97 that I simply don't want to spend a couple of thousand dollars to change it because I would have to make new headers and new intake manifold, and remove my electric cooling fan in order to put a stock belt driven fan on the car.
Even though our number 22 is not accepted in one place it is accepted in other places. I came in first at the International Speedster Trials and Reunion Hill Climb in Lincoln and got inducted into the Speedster and Racer Hall of Fame and "that ain't too shabby". With respect to Doc Pruden and the other's like Joe Gemsa, Kong Jackson, Chris Egsgaard, LaRue Thomas, Ben Uselangy with his rear engine Speedster, Jim Lattin with his dry clutch, Vic and Clem Sala and the names go on, who all built Speedsters and ran them at Shell Hill. Now we all know that there is only one place they would not be allowed to run today.
I thought Sherman heads were ok for the SCVMTFC run? Ron Mckenzie can you chime in on this one?
I mean no disrespect to you also. You thoroughly deserve the honor of the Speedster/Racer hall of Fame. Regardless of your downdraft carburetor, I like your car and admire the amount that you drive it. I always hope you will be on the SCVMTFC's Endurance Run just so I can throw you a passing "hi!" even if we don't get to talk more (busy days). Of course that also requires that I get there. I missed the past two years for one reason or another. How many times have you ridden with Ed?
I would never mean to disrespect you. You are one of the (many) good guys! Even if you do have a downdraft carburetor.
By the way, how is Mary doing these days?
Drive carefully, and do enjoy! W2
Wayne, Mary is fine. Got over her heart bypass and cancer and will turn 79 tomorrow. Today is my birthday and I am now 81 and counting. Lots of pain and not much strength but it beats the dirt nap. I had to pay a guy $100 today to cut down a 40 foot tall rubber tree and haul it away. Got a good chain saw in the cupboard but not well enough to use it. I have a silly disease called Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR)and is an inflammatory disease of the muscles that causes pain and stiffness in all joints and muscles. The cause is unknown, but Polymyalgia Rheumatica is the result of the body's immune system reacting against itself, known as an autoimmune response. No I don't have aids but at least you can cure that these days. I can't get in and out of number 22 very well and am toying with the idea of selling it. It is a sad thought to sell it but it takes a lot of doing to get going these days. We knew that we had better get to Lincoln quickly to go up the hill because times is flying and I have gone down hill since last June.
Walt, I believe the issue with the original Sherman heads are the fins. Apparently finned heads were not in use or common during the T era.
My speedster was built by my grandfather in 1972 and he and I first did the SCVMTFC Endurance Run in '73. He added the Sherman head in '76 and we ran it that way until '83. During a 25 year hiatus, the rules changed and the Shermans were disallowed. I have missed the Run the last two years so maybe the rules now allow them. No matter, my Sherman disintegrated during all those years of non-use.
Roger, I posted a few years back on the Forum regarding the Z head gasket issue I found. The way my Z head is formed, there is definitely exposed gasket material inside the combustion chamber. I will see if I can find the photos. If I lay a head gasket on a stock head or the remaining section of my Sherman head, it is very plain to see that all of the head gasket material would be completely sandwiched between the head and block. When I lay a head gasket on this particular Z head, there is a substantial amount of of gasket material that is NOT sandwiched between the head and block. This seems like a problem to me.
Frank...PMR is no fun. Mrs. Murray has it, and has been treated successfully for a couple of years using a small dose of Prednisone. Talk to a Rheumatologist if you have one. The Prednisone treatment was nothing short of a miracle for her PMR. She went from debilitating bed ridden status to normal ambulatory capability just about overnight after starting the regimen. She is currently weening down to a smaller dosages, and managing just fine. Hopefully, it will help you and get you back behind 'OL #22 again. Regards- W
FRANK, Frank, Frank,
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! You take care of you, you hear? PMR is one that I have not heard of. It does not sound like fun. I want you and Mary to enjoy life for many more birthdays to come.
I recall reading that thread about the exposed part of the head gasket. I agree that the heat of the combustion would likely burn up most any gasket and probably result in gasket failure. A custom made gasket would be an expensive fix. But it might be less than a new head. I wonder how many more heads are out there like that?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Wayne Murray, I have been on Prednisone for three years. I started out with 20 mg a day and now they have me down to one mg every other day and that is why the pain has come back. I was using 5 mg a day in order to attend the Speedster event at Lincoln, Nebraska. My Rheumatologist also has me on Allopurinol to counteract the Prednisone. I also take eight other medications and each one bothers the other ones. My skin is so thin that it tears if I bump into anything. I should not be playing with race cars and steamboats at my age. Perhaps I shall move over to stamp collecting. But no one trusts a guy who is a philatelist.
Frank...happy birthday...i had one today as well !! Prednisone can affect bone density so there is always another drug to mitigate that effect. Your beginning dosage was much higher than Mrs. Murray's. I'm glad you have a handle on your PMR, but it sure can be debilitating. I feel for ya brother !! My father (Randy) was a philatelist and a numismatic besides being a Model-T-anator and Lincoln-oscopus. W
When the current speedster guidelines were written, finned heads were not allowed because the Endurance Run committee had no documentation of one being manufactured during that time. A couple years later, we discovered a finned production head from 1914. This discovery changed the rules, as all we needed was documented proof, which allows Sherman heads or any aluminum or steel finned head.
Happy birthday, Frank & Mary, hope you'll find another doctor with some better ideas so you can test the power in the mountain wagon
Happy birthday to Wayne M too
Tom, I remember the threads on gasket fit problems, in my memory a lot of people were worried but noone had actual problems from the questionable fit despite lots of heads in use driven lots of miles. When I reread your thread:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/207815.html there actually was one person who had a Z head where copper gaskets would blow, Brendan Doughty. It stopped blowing gaskets when he changed to a steel/fiber gasket. If you're still worried, you could get your head exchanged by the manufacturer at no charge - there seems to be some variation in the manufacturing - as Dan Killecut did in this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/295708.html?1340402616 - or you could buy a custom gaskets for your head from http://www.gasketstogo.com/ as Gary White recommended in your thread. I think your Z head will work fine - and if not, it will after some tinkering (as usual with a Model T)
Thank you Ron McK for the update on the endurance Run rules.
I kinda thought that was the case, but I couldn't remember.