Can't Sleep...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Can't Sleep...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 11:51 pm:

So it is nearly midnight and I am thinking about the T in the garage. I can't sleep. I have the rear axle out, drive shaft off. There are things I want to do and can't do until I have a second set of hands and someone with a little more experience. Trying to think of things I can do by myself until the second set of hands is free. Thought about taking the spring apart and wire brushing them in prep for a later paint job. Any recommendations or learned lessons that can be shared?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 11:56 pm:

You need to creative, I've worked on my t solo for the most part. You should see me carry the frame around on my back, it's pretty funny (just joking of course).

To disassemble my differential I made a wood bracket/holder out of an old 2 x 12 my dad had. Used a 3" hole saw and then cut a slot with a reciprocating saw.

My 16 t is my first really old car to work on. I was somewhat apprehensive about working on it but so far it's been a piece of cake. Mind you I've been a motorhead since I was fifteen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 12:01 am:

Got these? If so, you can do most of it yourself.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Batta on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 12:34 am:

@ Steve- Yep, I am covered there.

Are the springs under any tension once from out and under the T? I have thought about taking the Square headed bolt that run through all the spring leafs out, in order to clean up. What should I expect?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 12:46 am:

Scott,

I believe each leaf of the spring is under tension when in the stack. That keeps the spring ends in contact with the spring leaf below. Be careful when releasing the spring bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 12:56 am:

I use a big C clamp beside the bolt, then after the nut is removed (or bolt broken) slowly loosen the clamp. You may feel more comfortable laying the spring flat on the floor with your foot on it as you loosen the clamp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 07:31 am:

I've never pulled a T rear spring apart. I understand that they are not under as much tension as an A rear spring. The A rear spring can kill you. What I did with that was use two c-clamps to hold it together, remove the bolt, replace the bolt with a threaded rod, washers and nuts, remove the c-clamps, and loosen the nuts. I re-assembled in reverse order. This may be overkill for a T, but if not, it's a good way to do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 07:49 am:

Scott,
You've been given excellent advice on that rear spring. After wire brushing it, consider using Ospho or some other phosphoric acid-based liquid on the individual leaves to retard rust. Let it dry for 10 minutes then neutralize it with water. Primer then paint. Now you have to consider rust 'bleeding' from between the leaves some months/years down the road. I use teflon between the leaves to keep them looking nice. Others might have another suggestion. I particularly like the black Poly-Slide inserts that Restoration Supply sells.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 08:16 am:

The springs on my '21 really did not have much tension on them. I did not need any clamps to take it apart, or put them back together. And as springs go they are fairly easy to put back on the axles. That being said, do what ever you feel you have to do to feel safe and comfortable handling the springs. I remember many years ago taking the springs off of a '38 Ford. That's a different matter, everything is under a lot of tension, and it terrified me.

Speedway Motors sells rolls of Teflon to line springs, and the rolls are not very expensive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 01:34 pm:

The few I've done didn't have much tension but I always used a c-clamp both for taking apart & re-assembly. I did however re-mount the bottom leaf onto the spring shackles before assembly. I think I avoided a few problems that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 02:06 pm:

Assembling the spring you can line up the leaves with a rod through the holes. Squeeze the leaves together with a vise or a clamp, and replace the rod with the spring bolt.

I used various complicated ways of installing the rear spring/shackles/rear axle, then I learned that all you have to do is loosen the perch nuts until the shackles fit into the spring, install the shackle nuts, then retighten the perch nuts.

For a couple of suggestions on spring lubrication, look here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/392044.html?1380643924


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 02:41 pm:

One way you can get the spring leaves apart without them flying all over is to take the nut off while the spring is still in the frame. There is a square hole in the center of the frame member which will hold the head of the bolt in place. Then if you are lucky, you can remove the nut. Then you loosen the u bolts and the spring will slowly decompress as you loosen the u bolts. If the nut doesn't come off easily, take the spring out and use the c clamps as posted earlier.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 02:57 pm:

Scott if you're nervous about doing something on the car then don't do it. I, like a number of guys here, have been in the trade all my life and some one (I believe here) said: forget everything you think you know. Truest T statement I ever read. The thing's in a class by itself and there are plenty of traps. Especially for a guy who thinks he knows. Even the Black Book is a hard read and can be fuzzy in it's explainations so even though you don't want to wait for help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 04:05 pm:

Scott

Those rear leaf springs can be under enough tension to fly apart and cause injury. Clamp or place in vise prior to removing the spring clips and the center sq. head bolt.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 09:37 pm:

I've never tried this, however, in the interest of safety when disassembling a rear spring, perhaps it would be a good idea to find a heavy link chain and wrap it around a rear spring several times. In case something breaks or a C-clamp slips off or something, that chain might keep a leaf or leaves from "exploding" in your face. Again, never tried this, and it might be a bit cumbersome, but it might work and prevent injury. Just a thought,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 09:39 pm:

I've never tried this, however, in the interest of safety when disassembling a rear spring, perhaps it would be a good idea to find a heavy link chain and wrap it around a rear spring several times. In case something breaks or a C-clamp slips off or something, that chain might keep a leaf or leaves from "exploding" in your face. Again, never tried this, and it might be a bit cumbersome, but it might work and prevent injury. Just a thought,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 09:39 pm:

Scott,also take note of the orange can in that second photo that Dan posted.That is a penetrant called Kroil.You cant beat it for saving this old stuff.Speaking from experiance,not bolony.
I did my own rear axle work,no help.
I did have alot of trouble.But I did it.FOllow the advice these folks are giving you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 09:41 pm:

Dang! Did it again! Telephone call interrupted me and I kinda' lost my place,....sorry for the double post,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 10:02 pm:

Actually, you can beat Kroil.

Penetrating oil comparison
Machinist’s Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker. Don’t forget the April 2007 “Machinist’s Workshop” magazine comparison test.

They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a “scientifically rusted” environment.

Penetrating oil ….. Average load...Cost per ounce

None ................. 516 pounds
WD-40 .............. 238 pounds ... 25¢
PB Blaster ......... 214 pounds ... 35¢
Liquid Wrench ... 127 pounds ... 21¢
Kano Kroil ........ 106 pounds ... 75¢
ATF-Acetone mix.. 53 pounds ... 10¢

The ATF-Acetone mix was a “home brew” mix of 50 – 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the “home brew” was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Note also that “Liquid Wrench” is about as good as “Kroil” for about 20% of the price. Your experience may vary, etc., etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By samuel pine on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 06:16 am:

I would say first I dont like any snake oil. Those
super sale deals by Kroil extra size rattle cans
worked once they are junk. Cant beat the acetone mix, although it settles and ya gotta shake it.
Nothing beats the fire ax.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 07:54 am:

Don't be paralyzed into inaction by fear or timidity. You can do it ALL yourself with the right tools and techniques. When I bought my '26 Coupe in 1970, at the age of 16, it was my first car and I knew absolutely nothing about Model T's or cars, but I went to Sears and bought a good set of Craftsman tools and a Model T Service Manual from Snyder's and studied and I restored the car completely, from the ground up, all by myself. You're lucky. You have the Forum and the world of Model T knowledge it contains at your fingertips, which was not available for me in 1970, but I embarked on the adventure and learned as I went, discovering, there was nothing to be afraid of. Just read the Model T Service manual and research the Forum to learn all you can about what you are going to do. Jim Patrick


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