Yesterday's tour was to the lumber town of Rusk, surrounded by the East Texas Piney woods. The tour was marred by tragedy when our good friend and fellow Lone Star T member Ted Dumas, his wife and daughter were rear ended by a pickup truck on a stretch of US 69 while returning from Rusk. Ted's 1924 touring was seriously damaged and ended up far from the highway. Ted was laying in the highway until help arrived.
Ted is still in Tyler hospital in stable condition. His wife and daughter suffered only minor injuries and have been released.
We pray Ted will recover fully. More to come when the internet conditions get better here at the hotel.
Sorry to hear that. Ted is one of the good guys and has given me a lot of help. Will be praying for Ted.
Terrible thing to happen. Hopefully he makes a complete recovery
Morning in the parking lot. Lots of T's snorting to life, puttering, whirring transmissions, a few back fires. The humidity was near 80% and fog was hanging low in the air below a full cloud cover. Like any day, a great day for driving Model T's!
Our first stop, just fuel and rest rooms, abuot 3/4 of the way to Rusk. You can see Ted Dumas' burgundy 1924 touring peeking out from behind John and Linda's green 26.
Nice pictures of what sure looks like a fun day Royce,....thanks for the pix! Your comment about the 80% humidity and fog makes me think it might have been a tour day that prompted discussions on the old argument of whether to use a carburetor hot air pipe or not! Anybody without hot air pipe complain about carb icing that day?
Royce, while I don't know Ted and his family, I feel for them and all our Model T family who this affects. My prayers go out to them, and all you for a safe tour. Like to know the details of why the truck rammed Ted's T. Naturally we always suspect something to do with a phone.
TV report of accident.
Boy I hate to about the accident. That's to bad.
Especially when your out with your family enjoying your hobby. Wishing Ted a full recovery.
We'll be watching the forum on any updates on Ted and his family.
Being hit from behind always raises suspicions why it happened.
Royce, the 20? Touring appears to be a survivor or I guess you could a say nice unrestored original. Was it on the tour or just brought to show.
Ivan - Sure hated to read that but thanks for the copy of the TV report. Prayers for the driver and his family for sure!
Thanks Royce for all the pictures and my thoughts go out to the Dumas family.
At least this thread is not zero pictures like the last
Here's wishing Ted and his daughter a speedy recovery.
Distracted Driving. Eyes not on the road ahead. I bet this is more common than all the years before texting.
There is a technical solution to this. Most texting fones have GPS: if the fone is moving more than 3 mph, dialing and texting modes are inhibited.
Talking on the fone doesn't take the eyes off the road; dialing and texting do.
What is the speed limit on US 69?
I have said the same for years.
With the number of people injured or killed on our highways every year due to cell phones and texting when will we see it happen?
Now days, they can take the time of the accident and check their wireless devices and see if they were texting or using it at the time of the accident.
"if the fone is moving more than 3 mph, dialing and texting modes are inhibited."
I didn't word that right.
If the fone is moving more than 3 mph, dialing and texting modes SHOULD BE inhibited.
I wonder if we couldn't start a campaign to propose a law?
It would be tough to determine if the phone was in the hand of the driver or a passenger. If you could do that, I say disable the phone all together.
I had a lady cut me off on the Interstate just the other day. I'm in the left lane passing her car in the right lane. My right front fender is at her left door when all of sudden she starts moving into my lane. Yep, her elbow was on the window sill with a phone stuck to her ear. All I had time to do was hit the brakes. I just cleared here left rear quarter then laid on the horn. She was still in nowonderland a mile down the road drifting from lane to lane. I'm pretty sure if I was in my truck, I would have stayed in my lane and taken out her entire left side and then let her buy me a new truck on top of it. As it was, I was in the little Escort. Oh darn.
I sure hope Ted is ok!!!!!!!! Bud.
Darn, Ken, that makes it tougher.
I don't believe celfones in cars should be banned altogether; just functions that take the eyes off the road more than two seconds. The hand up to the ear in your case is another I hadn't considered: it restricts vision.
I don't know. I think people in general are and society is as a whole just getting dumber and more and more irresponsible. I think about the hundreds of objects in the road that I have not hit over all my years of driving a lot and wonder how these people manage to survive.
There are good reasons to not disable phones in motion. Although most of those could be resolved technologically. But any driver that cannot use proper judgement and has an accident while using any such device should lose their driving PRIVILEGE for enough time to make an impression on their minute brain. A second offense and they should lose it indefinitely. If they cannot earn their living because they cannot drive, they should not be entitled to ANY public assistance of any kind.
It is strange that antique automobiles are hit as often as they are. BUT IT IS NOT REALLY THE FAULT OF THE ANTIQUE AUTO DRIVER!!! Every day, I see dozens of cars being driven as slow or slower than most antique autos are usually driven. I see trucks going up hills at under 20mph on roads with speed limits over 60mph. Local-born-inbreeds pull onto the freeway without looking at all at speeds under 30mph. These idiots should all be dead by now based on the number of antiques hit the past few years (four of them personally known by me). But, for some reason, many people cannot see the funny old car that isn't something they recognize or understand. They don't see it because in their brain, it doesn't exist. Until too late. If I can drive my antique faster than the slowest dozen cars around, I should have as much or more right to the road as any of them. And they need to be made to be responsible for their bad driving.
My heart goes out to all those in the car and on the tour involved with this collision. At least this time, so far, it sounds as though the injuries are all recoverable. I pray for a speedy recovery of those in the T. I hope the T will be re-restored. And I hope everyone else continues to have a wonderful tour.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
They should make cell phone usage while driving part of the testing like wearing glasses, etc.
https://www.google.com/search?q=i+just+learned+how+to+text+and+drive&tbm=isch&tb o=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=LS5PUreNAcbgyQHVzYD4AQ&ved=0CEwQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=622&dpr =1
You've come up with the BEST solution to the texting and driving problem I've ever heard of. All phones should be required by law to be manufactured with your idea in mind.
The speed limit was 70 MPH where the accident happened. According to Ted's daughter who was in the car when it was hit there were no skid marks. The pickup driver said he topped the hill and then could not do anything before hitting the T. That stretch of road has a series of hills and dips. I don't think there is any mention so far that the driver was doing anything except driving.
Ted has had cat scans and X Rays that show he has no broken bones. He is going to need some skin grafts from sliding down the highway. So far it appears everyone is very lucky.
We are pretty sure Ted is going to win the hard luck award!!!
More pictures from yesterday:
This is near the entrance to Rusk State Park. No one needed a carb heat stove, and no one had carb icing on the 52 mile trip from Lufkin to Rusk. That's silly!
The park is famous for the Texas State Railway, which operates two steam locomotives and has a large contingent of rolling stock. Each of us was photographed with our car in front of one of the locomotives. Needless to say lines were long and slow moving.
After the photo session Dave R. came up and said:
"Hey Royce one of your Firestone Non Skids looks kinda funny!"
So I had to change a tire in the parking lot.
Rule 1: Always break down in the shade!
Rule 2: Accept help when dealing with a 50 year old tire. The guy on his knees next to me was a park maintenance worker who brought over a little battery powered air compressor. Marvin and John lent a hand too.
Here's the Rusk rail yard:
Full size image is here:
Whew, hard luck indeed. Perhaps time to put a flag on a high pole on the car like a larger version of the warning flag we have on children's bikes? Or flashing red taillights?
It's a pity the tour participants had to be on a 70 mph road with limited sight distance, though.
East Texas is filled with history. This area was settled by the Spanish before the Mayflower arrived on the east coast.
Kodachrome or Ektachrome?
A little gas station from the 1930's.
My heart goes out to the victims and their family. I am deathly afraid of being hit from behind. A friend retired and was killed within his first week of retirement when, sitting at a red light, he was hit from behind by a drunk going 80 mph. I personally will not drive a Model T on roads with 55 mph and above speed limits. I try and stay on smaller, slower roads
The pictures of the tire change are great
Good luck and have a great time
On the Covered Bridge Tour the other day, we had 4 cars in a group and we got passed by a semi in a no passing zone nearing the top of a blind hill. I was car number three and dove for the shoulder to avoid the possible head-on collision the semi was creating. If he hit someone head-on while passing us, I figured we were all going to get some. We will continue to keep Ted in our prayers.
Glad to hear Ted's injuries are not of the more serious kind. Hope he recovers soon.
It is very fortunate that he was not hit by another vehicle after he was thrown out of the car. Many of you know that Ralph and I have those SB's in our cars to keep us in the seat. I hope we never need them.
Think Safety, Drive with Care, PLUS Good Luck!
I agree 100%. having a speedster I have less protection. I like back roads and slower roads. I know people on here will say that it can happen anywhere.
I was in the Bryan, TX area a few months ago and was surprised by how fast they drive on what I would consider secondary roads. I would be rather nervous driving a T there. Glad to have many miles of slower back roads here in eastern Washington!
Ted and his family are in our thoughts and prayers.
From the photos I cannot tell if the car rolled over or not. I would think from the damage shown it stayed upright, but if someone knows for sure if it did or did not roll over, I would like to add that to my files on safety and accidents. I believe there are some trends that we can better document. And if we put some thought into how to reduce risk, I believe we can decrease the chances (not totally eliminate them but decrease them) of future similar accidents.
Hap l9l5 cut off
The car spun around but did not roll over. Much of the impact on the rear was probably absorbed by the spare tire carrier and the two spare rims / tires that were on it.
Thank you for the clarification. Also for posting the photos of the tour here and the photos from Day 2 of the Texas T Party : http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/392868.html?1380972177
Hap l9l5 cut off
Royce: To add to Hap's inquiry, is the speed Ted was driving known? Even if the topography was rolling, an attentive driver would be looking from hilltop to hilltop to see what was coming up, just as we T drivers should be doing with our mirrors.
As for road choice, unless I have no other choice, I limit myself to roads that are posted 55 or less. Most roads in Wisconsin that are posted at 65 have a minimum speed of 45. Not maintaining that speed will get you a ticket and make any rearend collision involving slow speed your fault.
I see on here that a majority of T owners run in the 30-35 range. That is good on back roads where the speed limit is lower. If you choose to run on a road posted 55, 30-35 is to slow.
I feel that I have an obligation to other drivers to maintain a speed that will limit or narrow the speed differential gap. Running more that 10-15 below the posted limit creates a closing speed that tends to surprise drivers. They will expect this with farm equipment, but not so with another car.
I am not aware of others' road conditions, but here in Wisconsin, the roads for the most part are very well maintained, at least in the country. Driving 40-45 is not life-threatening if your T is maintained properly. That means a well balanced motor to limit vibration, tight suspension and steering, and sound and balanced wheels to begin with.
The last thing I will say is what most of you already know. It's all about defensive driving. Your head has to be on a swivel and looking long in all directions for the next danger to appear. One of the things I noticed in the pics of Ted's car is the lack of an outside mirror. I not sure if I missed it, it was lost in the accident or it wasn't there to begin with.
Our T's have limited rearward vision with the tops up and that is usually where the danger comes from. I am always checking my mirrors and in my Tudor, the inside mirror can sometimes be blocked by the passenger in the rear seat. The outside mirror takes care of that problem. It also covers the huge left rear blindspot.
I would like to wish Ted, his wife and his daughter a speedy and complete recovery. While it is unfortunate that this accident happened, it is something that all of us can study and learn from. What I do not want to see is it being used to restrict our right to enjoy our T's in a safe and respectable way with regards to the other traffic we share the road with.
I was also on that tour and spoke to Ted and met his daughter, Dorenda (sp?), only that Friday morning. I feel a disproportionally great amount of our tour was planned on 70-75 MPH roads. But they had great "aprons" or paved shoulders on the right side. I noticed not a lot of our T drivers quickly used the shoulders. Dave, your sentence above, "Driving 40-45 is not life threatening if your T is maintained properly" raised a red flag with me. I have a 2011 Explorer that will travel forward at 100 MPH. Should my great grandson drive this car this fast in the year 3011 with 100 year old components? On this T Party, indeed 2 days ago, I followed a 103 year old Model T in my modern car while he was driving 43 MPH on a level 65 MPH road. While I'm proud for him - a noted excellent T restorer - high anxiety set in when considering the many things that could happen to set off tragedy. . . a blown LF tire, an errant big dog suddenly on the roadway or an inbred idiot pulling out in front. Consequently I annually am more restrictive on roads that I'll consider driving my Model T s. Now I'm going to Tractor Supply and buy a boatload of flashing LED lights for the rear of my Model T s
I should also add my appreciation to Royce for his superb photos and description of the tour. That original '19 touring pictured above with some type of horn on the windshield support was really interesting. It has belonged to a really, really nice guy for 37 years and absolutely no mechanical upgrading has been accomplished. Coming to the Lufkin tour he open-trailered it through a great deal of rain with no coil box lid and it didn't drive more than a few miles but on previous Texas T parties with no rain that touring was a strong runner. But if you want to see original wiring, thats the car to study.
George, I believe that would be 2113 for a 100 year old Explorer. 3011 would be 1000 years.
Was Ted the last car in the tour line? If not, the driver must have passed some of the cars earlier to get to Ted and should have been aware that there was an old car tour going on and that their would be more cars ahead.
Was there not a modern car or truck/trouble trailer etc., following the tour with a sign saying "Slow moving vehicles ahead" or "Vintage Car Tour Ahead?" If not there should have been.
Any updates on Ted's condition?
Update on Ted - As of yesterday (Sunday) afternoon he was doing much better, he had been moved to a regular room on the trauma ward. At least two couples from the Dallas club that were at T-Party stopped on their way home to visit and found him alert, talking and being Ted! They are expecting him to be released from the hospital today or tomorrow to finish recovering at home.
Please continue to keep him and his family in your prayers, considering the magnitude of the accident, with the help of the doctors and nurses and the grace of the Lord he is going home sooner than any of us expected.
Hopefully he will be posting here himself soon!
Excellent news! Thanks so much.
Thanks for the clarification Stan. . . spelling was my worst GED subject.. Great news indeed, Kathy. Thanks ! I'm greatly looking forward to Ted telling of his unfortunate experience.
George, then math must have been your second worst GED subject :-)
I'm not much of a Tour guy since I live in an area where we have a lot of lightly traveled black topped roads that are great for driving 'slow moving vehicles'.
The above post making the suggestion about having a modern vehicle with a 'slow moving vehicles ahead' or something like that makes a lot of sense.
Is there some type of rule or suggestion to do this in the clubs? Maybe requiring T's to use a slow moving sign should be made a requirement. But that would make the 'independent minded folks moan and groan about having a requirement of some kind.
I don't worry a lot about the T drivers. Its about the other drivers on frequently traveled roads I worry about.
In the pix it looks like the upper windshield is safety glass that has taken a blow by a head. The lower part looks like plate glass. I wonder if Ted will be able to figure out how he was thrown out from behind the steering wheel?
Hey Ricks, I was thinking the same thing but figured it might eventually get asked: HOW in the world did Ted get thrown from the vehicle? Does anybody know if it spun clockwise or counter-clockwise?
The only thing I can figure is it spun counter-clockwise and he came out from under the steering while and over the passenger beside him.
steering wheel* should really read my posts first.
This does make a interesting case for seat belts. I don't have them in my T's but have thought about it.
By the look of the pickup truck that hit him, it must have been traveling almost twice as fast as the T. I suspect that the car was knocked right out from under him much as how a person is knocked out of their shoes when hit by a car.
looks like a great run but I am sorry to hear of the accident. Prayers for the family.
I've noticed that it's very easy to creep up on a car in front of you when you have the cruise control on. If you're not paying attention and doing 70 and the car in front is only going 35 mph it quickly becomes disastrous. Flashing rear lights would be a good start for getting noticed.
I just learned of the accident Ted.
Now I think a lot about Ted, his wife and daughter. I had the same injury last year and see the photos of the model T Ted I recall very bad memory.
When an accident happens, it is very stressful for the family, but when the accident happens while his passion is practice it is extremely difficult to live for the whole family.
I will send an e-mail to support Ted and I suggest you do the same thing, because even if all ends well, the coming weeks will be difficult to live morally. Ted and his family will need the support of all his friends.
Again sorry for the translation may not be perfect.
The section of road where the accident happened has speed limits that range from 55 to 75 MPH. Many drivers go through here driving at 80 MPH - 85 MPH.
The highway changes several times from four lanes with wide shoulders down to two lanes with no shoulders at some of the bridges.
There are hills and low spots that were a major factor in the accident. Topping the hill at 80 MPH there is no way the pickup driver could avoid a collision with an unseen slower moving vehicle. It would have mattered not at all if Ted was going 50 MPH.
The day in question had intense sunlight from the southwest interrupted by dark rain clouds. I found myself removing my sunglasses and putting them back on several times.
This is not a limited access freeway, so there is no minimum speed limit.
Topping the hill at 80mph there is no way the pickup driver could avoid a collision with an unseen slower moving vehicle. What if it had been a kid or school bus? This is not a limited acess freeway,so there is no minimum speed limit. If people can't stop in the assured clear distance ahead should the speed limit be lowered/enforced?? Maby the road use and access should be studyied?? Bud.
Almost every day, I go around modern cars doing between 35mph and 45mph on the freeway. In my about 1 million miles of driving so far? I have seen hundreds of objects bigger than a breadbox sitting stationary in the traffic lane. Never hit one. I have missed hundreds of deer, bundles of roofing shingles, cans of paint, and one bicycle bouncing through the freeway lanes. 99.9 percent of the time, there is NO excuse for these people having hit something.
Many people drive their modern cars at speeds well below 45mph on our freeways. If they are allowed to, so should we. The basic speed law states that you must not drive faster than you can see, react, and stop before hitting a stationary object. The blame needs to be placed where the real fault lays. Upon drivers not paying attention to what is in front of them, and the general societal belief that "I am not responsible for anything".
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Down here in Texas on the interstate freeways if people drove in the 35-45 mph range it would cause pile ups and wrecks.
We drive almost every other day on the freeways in this area and hardly if ever see anybody driving that slow.
Maybe the world is different down here.
If you drive in the 30's and 40's its on the farm to market roads.
A few years ago I was with my wife's cousin in his Model A pickup in the Texas Model A Tour.
We stayed away from the freeways and the interstate and used the less traveled state highways and farm to market roads.
There are some roads in Texas that have minimum speed signs in some areas.
Its usually around 45-55 mph.
Don't see them that much but they are around.
I guess folks down here live life in the fast lane.
I could easily have gotten hit today in a 45 mph zone on a rural two lane highway! I'm chugging along at about 30 and one decides to follow instead of passing.One quickly became 3 and while i had my hand signal going to turn left in a intersection one from the rear flew by everyone so i held my turning! The jerk must have been doing 60 or 70 when they passed all of us but their eyesight was good enough to see when they went by that my left turn signal had turned to your number one!! Bud.