Earlier this week we had a lengthy thread concerning Model Ts before the October 1908 T. Things we found included Ford ledgers (courtesy of Trent Boggess research published in Carlton Pate's book) with "pre T" automobiles sold between January and May 1908.
Several late 1907 advertisements and trade show reports described the "pre T"s.
Below is another drawing (or is it a photo?) showing the Ford "light touring", December 29, 1907. After that is a copy of the photo Royce posted showing the English Model S phaeton.
Following these two photos is a report on the "English car". After reading this account, I think the "light touring" described in England at the London Auto show was indeed the English phaeton S car. One thing this article provides us is a description of the color of the English S touring.
I have an ad from the Denver Daily News dated Jan 5th, 1908 with that is the same drawing (or picture) as the first drawing in this post and the caption below it reads "Model T, 4 cylinder Touring Car - The 1908 Sensation". This ad is also in Pates book. Look in the Appendix DVD, Folder “Pictures”, Sub folder “Advertisements”, File “1908_01_05 The Daily News…”. Also in section 03 page 40 and section 04 page 55 of the book.
I hope to find an actual photo of one of these cars.
This account describes the cars at the Chicago Ford Branch, December 2, 1907. This is one of the few 1907 accounts I've seen that refer to the new car as "Model T".
Please note that Ford of England never called the car in this illustration "Model S". It was only referred to in the catalogue as the Ford "Double Phaeton, Side Entrance". Indeed it is based upon the NRS chassis, and appears to use the standard NRS running gear, transmission, engine, etc.
The picture is from the Thornton, Perry and Schreiber catalogue published in March 1907. The original is in Neil Tuckett's private collection. Much more information about this car can be found in the book "The English Model T Ford" including interesting narratives from owners.
Thanks for the photo and reference. I've long been surprised Ford didn't build a touring on the NRS chassis. It seems like it would have been a good fit for the 1906-1908 period.
I'm at the Automotive Research Library this morning. One of the things on my 'wish list" is to find any photos of the car shows that may show any of these "dead end" cars that seem to be at some of the auto shows. We'll see if I have any luck. I'm only there for a few hours, then on toward Hershey.
If you get time you should visit Ford Photo Graphic services in the basement of Ford WHQ building at One American Road in Dearborn. The archives there contain many original glass plate negatives transferred to full size film negatives. The collection is horribly organized, for example categories such as "Ford Shows" and "War" might contain pictures from any year.
When I was there the person in charge was a surly woman who took a cigarette break every thirty minutes during which time I had to wait outside until she returned. She wanted to talk about how she always got passed over for appointment to a more interesting job and how her union steward had filed a formal complaint with management.
There are many images at Ford WHQ that are not at Benson Ford.
Thank you for the suggestion. I tried to find something online reference photo archives at Ford Worldwide HQ. I didn't find anything regarding hours.
I won't have time today, however would like to visit it in the future. Do you (or anyone else) have a good link with more information regarding their archives?
Also, have you or anyone else following this visited the "Bently Library" (I think it is in Ann Arbor, a UM library)? It was recommended to me as another good location for early Ford archives.
(had anyone told me during high school or college, that I would willingly spend my free time and money to visit libraries, I would have considered them "certifiable")
The Bentley Library is on the University of Michigan North campus. Be sure to wear your Nebraska red sweatshirt.
It's Hershey week--you still in NE?
Thomas, you trying to get me in trouble?
Mike, I flew to Detroit last night, just about to start driving to Hershey now. I left the truck and trailer at Ann Arbor and now starting out.
Rob, was it you who suggested the Model T wheelbase was changed from 97 inches, to 100, to fit the low tension magneto?
Regardless, I was struck by the long nose piece and shaft of the starter today, and realized it is about 3" longer because of the magneto. How many other parts were changed to make room for the magneto? Just that one change could set production back by months.
What was compromised in making room for the magnet?
Crankshaft lengthened three inches, making it more whippy and prone to breakage, etc.
Hogshead made longer.
Crankcase made longer.
Pedals moved aft 3".
Steering shaft, column, spark and throttle rods.
The list must go on and on, just to avoid paying patent royalties for a high tension magneto like found on the Model K. Henry promised Spider Huff a royalty on the low tension magneto, but screwed him out of that.
Henry didn't pay royalties, but he sure paid extra for all the extra materials going into each car, and owners pay extra for gas, repairs and maintenance - forever.
Yes, I speculated that could be the reason the "pre T specs of 97 inches became the production T 100 inch wheelbase. It makes sense, since the 1907 pre T specs did not include a magneto. I also am speculating that the 11th hour addition of the T magneto may have set production back from the initially announced February 1908 to October 08.
Yes, I wonder if the added cost of materials and overall weight were worth building the internal low tension magneto as opposed to buying an external high tension mag (as with the Model K)? Ford never attempted to make his own carburetor s (that I'm aware of) buying them (and coils, coils boxes initially, etc) instead of developing his own.
Lot's of interesting things to ponder .
Well Henry must have gotten it right.Lot's of better cars were sold but how many exist today? How many makers still exist? What about the Seldon Patent? Did Henry actually do anything that would make some happy?? Bud.