Are coil sizes different for different years?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Are coil sizes different for different years?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 06:03 pm:

I took the 1912 coil box apart. Sanded and stained it and put it back together. Now the rebuilt coils do not fit - too wide front to back.

The coils do have about a millimeter of copper plating over the two points on the back and one on the bottom. That is not it because the box does not fit starting at the bottom.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 06:11 pm:

I think in '13, Henry changes from a wooden coil box to a metal box. The coils were changed also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 06:18 pm:

Check the Encyclopedia, it shows about 7 different coil sizes from 1911/12/13


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 01:34 am:

Robert:

Which 1912 box are you talking about? Post a picture if you are not sure. You could have a KW, possibly a Heinz or even a Jacobson Brandow. All 3 of those used a wooden box.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 06:19 am:

Robert,

Please clarify if the coils and coil box you are discussing previously fit together fine or if you are dealing with a coil box that you rebuilt and that you ordered rebuilt coils and that combination does not fit together.

From reading your post I believe you are saying you refinished your wooden coil box and you ordered some rebuilt coils and they do not fit.

And it could even be more complex than John stated. I.e. for 1912 there are 3 different coil box makers with different coils. But you might also have an earlier or later coil box that you refinished. I.e. they were sometimes replaced (commonly with a later metal coil box because the coils were easier to obtain but also sometime with another wooden coil box.).

If you go to http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/C-D.htm#cb1 it has a listing of the coil boxes and coils used on the T with links to photos of some of the boxes and the measurements of the coils. The links did not copy and paste in below, but if you go to the link above -- they work.

1909 to early 1911
4200 ----- Kingston. Used 4215 coils. Rear terminals.
4250 ----- Jacobson-Brandow. Used 4256 coils.
Note: Ford parts books show the name as Jacobson-Brandon but the actual name was Jacobson-Brandow.
1911
4660 ----- Kingston. Used 4238 or 4713 coils, 2-9/16 x 2-5/16 x 5-3/4
4250 ----- Jacobson-Brandow. Used 4256 coils
4600 ----- Heinze. First used in 1911. Used 4611 coils 2-5/16 x 3-1/16 x 5
1912
4660 ----- Kingston. (Few used. May have been superseded by 4675 in 1912.) Used 4713 coils, 2-9/16 x 2-5/16 x 5-3/4
4675 1383 Kingston
4600 ----- Heinze
----- ----- Jacobson-Brandow. Not cataloged. Smaller than 1911 type.
1913
4706 1383 Kingston. Used 4713 coils, 5-3/4 x 2-9/16 x 2-5/16
4600 ----- Heinze. Used 4611 coils, 5 x 3-1/16 x 2-5/16
----- ----- K-W. Used 4681 coils, 5-3/8 x 3-1/4 x 2-1/4. This was a wooden box and the coils had the contacts in a different location from the later types.
4725 1383 K-W and Ford. Metal box, non-sloping lid. Individual coils supplied by K-W, Heinze, and Ford. Used 4732 or 5007 standard-size coils, 5 x 3-1/2 x 2- 1/8

Lang's has a good listing of various coils but they do not list the measurements. Note they emphasize the coils only fit the original or reproduction coil boxes for that coil until you get to the standard KW coil introduced with the metal coil boxes.

Brent Mize aka coil doctor's web site at: http://coildoctor.com/coil_documents_and_diagrams
has an excellent 3 part article The Model T Ford Coil Series that was researched and developed by Trent Boggess, Ron Patterson and Steve Coniff. It is on the left hand side. Below is one section of that article from 2/3 of the way down on the pages at:
http://coildoctor.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/The_Model_T_Ignition_Coil_-_Part_1-1.22231952.pdf :



Also see the article about RV Anderson and his brother and the numerous different coils at: http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2008/07/01/hmn_feature20.html which is the Jul 2008 "Hemming Classic Car" magazine article.

I'm sure you will get it sort out. A little more information about what you started with and what you now have would probably help us give better suggestions.

Good luck and don't get frustrated.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 06:49 am:

The terminals are also located in different areas on those different size early coils.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 06:32 pm:

Hap, Ford used 4232 Kingstons through most of 1911. The 4238, commonly referred to as the "low bridge" Kingston, is pretty much a 1912 unit. The 4232s are hard to find (I do reproduce them) and not commonly used, which is a shame because they are an excellent coil that, properly rebuilt, produce identical sparking to the Ford/KW design on Fun Projects' Strobo-Spark test equipment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 03:32 pm:

RV, I know you did rebuilt those early coils a few years ago, as your did one or two for me. I do know that Bob has two of the ones he is asking about that could probably be rebuilt. He also has three with little brass tabs soldered on them, so they could be used in his coil box and they have passed inspection with new points. I told him to contact you concerning the rebuilding.


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