Trying to get a bead on a what a typical price is for a good paint job on a touring.
I had a casual friend who works in a body shop do the restoration paint on my 16 touring. I media blasted it to bare metal, and he took it from there..not too many wrinkles but a few here and there when I gave it to him stripped down.
I got all the pieces back today. They are lovely..he did a wonderful job.
He charged me 2,400 in labor and about 200 in paint along the way.
That seems very very cheap to me considering how much time he put into it (so I gave him more).
What have you guys paid for on good paint jobs?
Good question. I will be having mine painted next year.
$200 is probably the cheapest paint (system) you can get next to house or tractor paint. Depending on pitting, you could easily spend that much on primer-filler. You got a bargain! Potentially.
if you have used reasonably good paint and primer and the body work that will naturally have to be done in pitted areas.,that 2400 is extremely cheap for a good paint job.
I paid about $3000 with about 1500. in paint,primer, drier, hi-bild and the rest labor at $30.00 per hour.
I have some Hot Rod friends that would not bat an eye at a 10 to 20 K paint job. 2400 would just about pay for the top coat!
My friend spent 8K on his Corvette. I spent about $1700 on my 69 GTO six years ago. $1100 was paint, chemicals and shop supplies. (I was on a budget so had to go cheap.) The other $600 was what I gave my friend's son for helping me do it in his uncle's professional body shop after hours.
The paint job turned out excellent. I took the car to a few cruise-ins and folks couldn't believe I got the paint done for such a price - but you have to remember, most of the labor involved was mine.
I haven't spent a dime, and my T came as a rust bucket And some people call him Rusty
I stopped at a local body shop that specializes in old car paint jobs. About 2 years ago he wanted $6000.00 to do my 25 Fordor. That's why I keep saying "This is the way it looked when I bought it " BTW, that's what I paid for the car about 14 years ago when I went to Naperville, Ill, to get it. (Carol Stream to be exact)
If having it done by someone you don't know, or some fly by night outfit who really lowballs it, you should ask them for pictures of work they have done and past references. If you choose to have them do the work, do not pay them until the work is done and you are fully satisfied. Be involved by having them call you after finishing one step and before proceeding to the next step so you can inspect their work before it gets covered up. Have this noted in the contract so if they accidentally fail to do this, you will have authority to have them uncover what they covered up. If they balk at this or complain, don't allow them to do do anything on your car. 99% of a good paint job is in the preparation and a lot of shoddy workmanship, such as bondo used to smooth over a rusty, dented surface or bridge rusted out areas, can be hidden by a hastily applied paint job which will resurface a few month later in rust blooms long after your painter has closed his doors or moved on. Make sure also to inspect your empty cans to ensure that he has used your expensive primer and paint and not substituted it for a cheaper paint only to keep yours to sell later on. Jim Patrick
This 31 Tudor has a $3400 paint job over about $5000 in sheet metal and body work including an all steel roof. I did this one about 12 years ago. Over that period, I've seen the cost of some paint materials go up 300-400%. The same job and materials today could easily top $12k. You just won't find a Model T owner spending that much on an entire car these days.
Take a ground up restore for a typical show car, quality restore 1911 or 1912 Touring for example..
Good paint isnít cheap.
The labor cost for a good quality paint job is not cheap.
Upholstery. Hides are not cheap. Finding someone to do diamond tufted leather upholstery for two cushions and two backrests and the side panels and the top is not cheap
A new brassworks radiator is 1300. A carbide generator, 1300.
The restoration of original brass lamps,carbide generator,horn, windshield frames, tire pumps. cables and headlights is not cheap. Reproductions of same is not cheap.
The restoration of a coilbox and coils is not cheap. Restored brass era coils are two hundred a piece or higher.
A quality engine and transmission rebuild, despite what anyone will tell you, is not cheap.
Professional restoration of wood wheels and correct tires are not cheap.
Quality rear end rebuild is not cheap.
Many reproduction parts, fenders, hoods, top irons,etc, are not cheap.
So there is no question there are collectors out there building show quality Model T Fords and there is no question in my mind that they are either extremely talented,have a lot of NOS parts lying around which they inherited or bought decades ago cheaply and have all the tools and machinery needed to do the labor themselves, or they are paying good money for the parts and to have others do the labor and assemblyÖ.
You got that right Roy....
The truth though is, for most people - we can do some ourselves- the rest we need help with.
What we do ourselves is priceless. For everything else, there's master card.
When you do all that, Roy, you don't have a 1912, but a 2012. How does that compare to the price of a new Ford?
Yes Ricks Surf City, you do have a 1912.I donít get the comparison point
If thatís what you want. You want a show quality, as it came off the assembly line, shiny new look, it aint cheap.
A ground up restoration, a good restoration done by qualified people with good materials and parts should theoretically cost at least the same to repair a current car for some elements, like paint. But an antique restoration where things have to be restored by a limited number of capable people who do specialized work, rather than a new part ordered, adds another cost element.
So again, if you want the high end restore you, in most cases, have to pay. But I disagree, you donít have a 2012 but a restored 1912.
Well of course there are those who say, itís not worth it. Then donít do it.
There aint too many totally original, unrestored cars, if any around. Most have had some sort of restore over the decades over a hundred years but may still look original.
I for one, love to see a high quality Model Ford, not only shiny and new but correct as possible and preserved for another century or more.
I have been painting cars for 35 years. To the trained eye, paint doesn't cover up anything, it only emphasizes mistakes and short cuts. If you don't know how to paint, you can inspect every step and still not know what you are looking for. The only way to get a good paint job, is to find a good painter. You can save some money by dong part of it yourself, but talk to the guy who lays down the finish coat to be sure your are doing it right.
How can you call it a restoration if you use the latest hi tech finishing materials and methods? Why not put in an eco-boost engine as well?
A real restoration would use original painting materials and methods. from wiki:
Gilsonite-brand uintahite's earliest applications included paints for buggies and emulsions for beer-vat lining. It was used by Ford Motor Company as a principal component of the Japan Black lacquer used on most of the Ford Model T cars.
Then how can you call it a restoration if you have a sort of a T with a chevy crank and overhead valve head, non original carb and front axle brakes? "Why not put in an eco-boost engine as well?".... Sorry Ralph, but that is the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't pretend that mine is a restoration, let alone a high dollar one. In fact, about half of it is finished in powder coat, which, come to think of it, may be closer to Gilsonite method than any modern wet paint.
Gilsonite was applied hot, then hardened as it cooled. Powder is melted in an oven, then hardens as it cools.
The first thing you see of a car is its finish. Those weren't $7,000 paint jobs when they left the factory. Too many old cars are over-restored, and have little relevance to how they left the factory, as claimed.
If you want a show piece than go and spend the money but when your at the local car show,they look at the car as a hole not the sum of its parts. The paint on the 12 was done in the back yard with a webber paint sprayer for 60 bucks in 1960 and still looks good and Dad was not a painter. When Dad took it to a national meet the guys comments were about the fourth door not the paint. I used epoxy paint it has a nice shine and is 500 bucks a 5 gallon pail I put it on the fenders of the 12 and it looks great.
Its crazy to say they were not 7 thousand dollar paint jobs. Whatever the paint job was had to be certainly better than what a person or body shop could do at the time. So those cars probably had a pretty good paint job.
A car can be overrestored if parts of the car that were not supposed to be filled in with body filler are filled in. Like a front axel. Someone with a mirror like surface on his front axel would be wrong.
But we have to remember that these cars being painted were not pitted . It was new metal so with that you get a pretty good finished product.
If you look at some of the old factory photos, the paint looks pretty shiny, almost mirror like...
In the end you use the research and try to make a correct car the best you can.
Depends on how you look at it. You can spend a LOT of money on a Model T and it will still be a $12-15,000 car no matter how much money you spend on the drive train, body work and a super nice paint job.
It depends on the individual.
I dont know what model T ford brass era car fully and correctly restored costing a lot of money to restore would only be worth 12 to 15.. You got that wrong.
I wonder how many having such a car on this forum feel their car is worth only 12 to 15 or would sell it for that amount. Auction results for well restored, show quality brass era Model Ts do not support that conclusion.
Just some well restored brass era and non brass era auction results...
11 - 12 October 2012
1912 Ford Model T Delivery Car
To be auctioned on Thursday, October 11, 2012
Sold for $52,800
‚ÄĘ Engine no. 98705
A 1919 Ford Model T depot hack, which sold for $22,000, was the oldest car to cross the block.
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20121025/carnews01/121029910#ixzz2h8wo8vPG
1911 Ford Model T Torpedo Roadster
To be auctioned on Saturday, June 9, 2007
Sold for $79,750
1915 Ford Model T Roadster
To be auctioned on Saturday, June 9, 2007
Sold for $30,80
1921 Ford Model T Paddy Wagon
To be auctioned on Saturday, June 9, 2007
Sold for $38,500
1909 Ford Model T 5-Passenger Touring
Sold for $61,600
1911 Ford Model T Runabout
Sold for $97,900
‚ÄĘ Chassis no. 52382
1912 Ford Model T Touring
To be auctioned on Saturday, March 8, 2008
Sold for $51,700
‚ÄĘ Chassis no. 111059
Automobiles of Amelia Island
08 March 2008
1909 Ford Model T Roadster
To be auctioned on Saturday, March 8, 2008
Sold for $55,000
‚ÄĘ Chassis no 2585
1921 Ford Model T "Railway Express" Delivery Wagon
To be auctioned on Friday, October 10, 2008
Sold for $36,300
1912 Ford Model T Touring
To be auctioned on Thursday, October 7, 2010
Sold for $44,000
Maybe I should have said Black era T's. That's what I meant. Again it depends on how much you want to spend.
Trailer queen types would spend the big bucks but not me. Call me cheap.
No, John, there is point here that restoring the car just to the point that it is pretty much correct and so that runs well is no less a good thing.
In fact you may actually enjoy your car more than some who may fear damage to their work of art and not drive it much.There is almost something sad about that in a way...
So there are different philosophies out there....
The day of the $25 model T seams to have disappeared into history
There is a guy here in town that "garbage picked" his 15 brass T. No fooling, they were tearing down an old barn and there was a 15 T Touring the contractor dragged out and was about to scrap. He now drives it after putting in a set of coils, plugs and fluids. A way cool car. This was all done in the last 18 months. They are still out there.
PS paint is rough...but it sure has "character"
You can have it any color you like, as long as it's black or rust.
I paid $80 for mine! Just lots of TLC and Rustoleum black! I never intended it to be a fancy paint job. It's just that the paint someone had long since repainted it with was disintegrating, so I just put something on the metal (which is still in very good shape) to keep it from rusting until I could afford a good paint job.
I spent more for the paint job on my grandfather's 27 coupe (pictured in another post), than I could sell the whole car for, but then, it was my grandfather's.
I've seen that pic Roy posted several times and just noticed that the workers are painting a car WITH the interior installed. Does that seem strange? I was under the impression that the interior was added after the paint was dry to the touch. Or maybe it's not paint they're spraying.
It is paint, but they're not spraying it. They're using a gravity flow system, very low pressure, certainly not atomized. Therefore it would have been fairly easy to keep paint off the edges of the upholstery.
According to Ford Methods and the Ford Shops (1915), the upholstery was installed prior to the application of the final coat. Conversely, four coats were applied prior to the installation of the upholstery.
- brown metal primer coat - sprayed on in a booth
- blue black primer coat - flowed on
- first color varnish coat - flowed on
- second color varnish coat - flowed on
- upholstery installed
- finishing varnish coat - flowed on
$50 worth of paint.
Maybe I'll do the black sometime.......and maybe not.......
Depending on the local demographics, body and paint shops charge anywhere from 45.00 to 65.00 per man hour. Some of the really high end restoration shops are in excess of 75.00 per man hour. As we all know, not much gets done in an hour when it comes to working on an old car. I can certainly see why even the most simple of old cars can cost 10 to 20K for good paint job.
We all used to have a friend or two in the body and paint business that moonlighted on the side and worked on their friends old cars at night and/or were retired from the business and had set up shop in their back garage where they did body and paint work part time and would charge reasonable cash prices for good quality work. Today, those folks are becoming as rare as black and white televisions.
Ugh.... I should not log on late at night after a long day at work, and I wish I had not posted on this thread. Every T owner needs to find their own level of comfort as they "restore" their T. Some of us are absolutely into original Tís and have to find the correct year or month parts for their Tís, some of us just want to drive them, some have fun finding ways to modify them with modern components, some want to have the 100 point car, and some are happy to drive a barn fresh car and so on. To each his own. I have T's that fit into several of these categories. As long as you are driving a T most of us don't care. I sure don't and would drive one with a Chevy crank and over head valve head if I could find the parts within my T budget. One of my Tís is a very original Brass Touring, One is a early 26 Coupe with a 4 to 1 rear end, balanced motor, high compression head and a modern Warford transmission and it runs like stink, one is a sort of replica of what a farmer would have done with a T during the depression and has barbed wire to the plugs and one is a speedster with parts from many years! Drive on!
If you want to paint your T and do a good job without spend a fortune and having a big learning curve look around for a used TIP low pressure high volume system. I paid $75 for one of mine and $50 for the other. They were in the $1000 range new. I've painted several tractors, the garage, fences and a pickup with them. The learning curve is about ten minutes, the job is pretty close to as good as the average body shop in a small town used to do and you don't get overspray all over everything. You can paint in the driveway because you are not blowing dust all over everything. I paint in one of those $200 Chinese tent things they sell at Costco. Keeps the dust down and keeps the wind off. Not as good as a $2000 or 3000 dollar paint job but works for me.
Buy Acrylic Enamel at auctions, garage sales, etc. If the can isn't opened it never gets old, you can buy thinner for it, it sprays easy and looks good.