Looking at finding a friend for my '23 Roadster pick up.
So far a '22 Buick, '25 Hudson and '27 Standard are all in the mix but this has appeared on the horizon so to speak.
Supposed to be a '13.
Anyone know anything about them. Looks very "T" under the hood. About where the similarity ends?
The similarity ends at the transmission. Here's a post showing the friction transmission used on Metz cars: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/264020.html
I would wonder what the real story is about that Metz. It is not a standard Metz offering. Metz offered a model called a speedster in 1914, but that is not one of them. They also offered a similar car in 1913 which they called a "Special Roadster". There are many things that are not standard Metz on that car. Now, it could have been something done a very long time ago, or not. This could be especially true for a car in Australia.
US Metz cars at that time had 30X3 tires on all four corners. Those look like they may be 30X3.5 tires. The hubs do look like the Metz hubs. The fenders are not standard Metz fenders. I cannot see the friction-drive because of the box by the running board. I find it interesting that it appears to be right-hand drive. I think Metz was mostly left-hand drive, but again, Australian cars may be different.
The seat and gasoline (petrol) tank don't look standard Metz either.
Many questions. Can they tell you much about the car?
Good luck whatever you decide to do!
There are three issues of the Antique Automobile magazine from about forty years ago that anyone interested in Metz needs to have. Lots of good information in them.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I have a a friend who owned a beautiful Metz Roadster with a top on it. He endlessly experimented with friction linings and ended up with a Kevlar lining he machined himself. We are in the hills and he found the car critically underpowered. He is a tall fellow and couldn't fit in comfortably, he had to reach around the top irons to hold the steering wheel... kind of looked like a circus bear!
That Metz is really a beautiful car, like most Metz cars. If you live in some flat place (like Iowa or Florida) and are not in a hurry that car would be a lot of fun!
The head gasket is the same as a model T head gasket.
Someone made that Metz into a speedster, changng a lot of things on the body. The Metz "22" had wood spokes, different fenders. The hood, cowl, front axle and springs look correct. The lights are wrong. Not sure what the lever is to the driver's right, but not original. The gas tank should be behind the seat. Maybe it;s in that basket!
P Jamison I have the body shown above w/windshield and NOS top bows, correct gas tank and seat and steering wheel goes on the drivers side like most american cars nowadays, I'm putting it on a speedster to have a period body
If anybody is interested. Rumor has it that there may be two Metz automobiles not very far from where I live coming up for sale soon. I cannot yet confirm or deny that rumor. But if anyone is seriously interested, send me a message. I am going to try to find out. I really can't be seriously interested in anything like them right now. I have too many projects already and cannot afford anything that would be in good condition.
I am told they are mostly there and need some restoration. Don't know much more than that.
Metz is an interesting car, and a better tour car than most people think.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Several years ago, I visited Egge Machine Co. in Santa Fe Springs, CA.
They had a Metz very similar to the one in the photo above posted by Mr. Jamison. It appeared to be a runner and was very complete with the exception of the top, I believe.
I have no idea if it's still there or not.
A couple more photos. Thanks for the info. It is on the other side of the country so can't really get across to inspect until I am 90% sure it is what I want.
Pretty much original underneath. He has put some type of resin lining on it.
Any other information out there? Do you think it is worth looking at?.
It is a 5 hour flight and 6 hour drive away and thats before getting into the logistics of getting it home
Is this one a Metz?
THe front axle looks like a wooden one on a Brush.
I think it may be a Maxwell. I would have to look it up to be sure. It looks like a straight tubular axle. Definitely not a Metz or a Brush. Maxwell did use that style radiator for one or two models about one or two years. The curved edge steel firewall and fenders look distinctly Maxwell circa 1910.
Just my fast speculation.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I don't see any evidence of brakes on it. Does it depend on the friction wheel? I wouldn't trust those shallow hub wheels to hard cornering.
They look more like the slightly upgraded bicycle wheels that gave wire wheels such a bad reputation in the early part of the century.
If you want glitz, and a unique car, the Metz has it. What would you say when the sweet young thing asks what kind it is? Any answer but Model T will have a flat reception.
If you want a practical speedster with easy resale, the T in Clovis on tbay is your ride.
Interesting brake system on the Metz for sure.......scroll to page 817.......
Interesting company for sure.
http://books.google.com/books?id=rg-2bxzpLgUC&pg=PA814&lpg=PA814&dq=what+kind+of +brakes+does+a+metz+automobile+have?&source=bl&ots=QW2hn7d_Jk&sig=Bxv5huN1Qp0L6L DgrmkVm9lMbu8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XGVkUuPOKsH22gXzj4HIBg&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=w hat%20kind%20of%20brakes%20does%20a%20metz%20automobile%20have%3F&f=false
I've never seen those unusual disc brakes on a Metz, Craig; just basic internal expanding brakes like on the "T".
When I read "disc brakes" I automatically think of the modern type single disc (or motorcycle type) brakes. Those aren't them.
Metz did use a multiple disc brake much like the '40s/'50s New Departure bicycle multiple disc brake I believe about 1911 or before. I will go check a copy of a Metz article I have to see if I can pin down the years in use.
Metz 1912 to '14 used something similar to a '09 to '25 T small drum brake only lined and center pin opened to the center instead of outer.
Well, the article did not have the information I was looking for. Years ago, I knew a fellow that owned a couple Metz automobiles (he has since passed on). I had (at the time), a basket case Metz. He was very willing to show me his cars and share knowledge, including the copies of an article mentioned earlier (published in "Antique Automobile" in 1967). He told me that there were errors in the article. This, I have since confirmed (Rob, the model K isn't the only one).
I did a Google search and found several articles from 1911 and 1912 talking about the Metz multiple disc brake. One article said Metz was the only one. I also found an ad for the 1912 model 22 that specifies the brakes as multiple disc. I couldn't figure how to copy the ad, but try this link if you wish;
http://books.google.com/books?id=Pzs6AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=Metz+multiple+di sc+brakes&source=bl&ots=nRiRald41J&sig=duc3pKcY7MY2f0La0ibq09UIrYY&hl=en&sa=X&ei =tb9kUumfOKbjiwLploHoAQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Metz%20multiple%20disc%20bra kes&f=false
It would appear that the model 22 Metz did come out in calender 1911 and that the 1911 and earlier 1912 Metz model 22s as well as the earlier air-cooled two cylinder cars did use the multiple disc brakes. Sometime in 1912, certainly by the time the 1913 model 22 came out, Metz went to a more conventional brake. The shoe is a single cast iron piece almost the same dimensions as the model T brake. It differs largely in that it is made to be lined with standard-for-the-day brake lining and that the opening for the pivot mounting faces toward center instead of away from center like the Ford shoe does if it has been left intact and not cut at the bolt. The mounting is quite different, no real backing plate. It is somewhat open with the shoe held by springs onto a "double arm" for lack of a better word or description. The cam that actuates the brakes is very much like the one used on a model T.
Many model T parts can be used with some modification to work on a Metz. Including the brake shoes.
Back toward on topic. The Metz that Russell P asked about may not be a "proper factory" Metz by USA standards. But just like all the special-bodied Fords of that era used by our Southern friends, it could be considered vintage acceptable at the very least, and may even be a proper restoration of a locally bodied car.
The wire wheels are also quite interesting. The hubs appear decidedly Metz. I do not know who manufactured them. But they are unusual, not seen on many other cars. They were an option available on Metz cars at least by 1912 (probably 1911) and continued to be available at least through 1915 on the model 25. The 1914 factory-built speedster offering came with wire wheels as standard equipment.
During these years, these wire wheels used a 30 X 3 tire, not 30 X 3.5, at least in the US. The tires on the red Metz above appear to be 30 X 3.5. However, pure speculation, since Fords used 30 X 3.5 all the way around in that part of the world, perhaps the wheels for Metz needed to follow suit due to the availability of tires in that part of the world.
It should also be noted, that the earlier two cylinder Metz and some Saxon automobiles used a similar wire wheel. However those wheels are not the same as these. They are somewhat lighter, and weaker, and may use a smaller tire size. The two cylinder Metz also had a unique hub arrangement that allowed easy dis-assembly and reassembly whereby you can simply flip the wheels around to convert the car from the common 56 inch track to the 60 inch wide track. It also worked out that it was an early easy way to carry a spare tire, mounted, aired, and ready to run.
The wheels/hubs on the red car shown do NOT appear to have that feature.
For a long time, Metz was considered somewhat of a dog of a vintage car. However, in recent years, they seem to have picked up quite a following. I know of several people restoring Metz cars and there is a fairly active discussion group I keep getting emails from. I check in on them occasionally besides. They have several advantages of parts and manufacturing developments by 1912 in a car that looks like it ought to be 1907. The friction drive is remarkably flexible under a wide variety of conditions. Several people are touring Metz automobiles these days. Most of them seem to love them. I can't say much because I have never driven one. Bill Bratmiller loved to drive his cars. He loved to drive other club members crazy by outrunning them under all kinds of conditions. He didn't mind being teased about his Metz. He would just pass the people up on the freeway later that day (traffic was slower and lighter 40 years ago)
By the way, the rumor is confirmed. There is at least one, probably two Metz cars coming up for sale soon (forced estate sale). There are also extra parts. These are about two hours drive away from me. No word on price yet. But I am too broke to buy much of anything yet. And have too many worthwhile projects already. Otherwise, I would love to have a Metz.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
From what I can find out, speed control lever was outside ( as per this car) in 1912 and went to a centre location in 1913. Wire wheels were an option from 1914.
It has been suggested that this car may have been modelled on the FIAT Speedster of the time.
Not sure how accurate this is.
He wants $25,000 au for it. As an indication The Hudson pictured went for about $20,000. The Yellow Standard is around the same. There are '20's T in good restored condition anything between $15,000 and $25,000 at the moment.
Standard 1927 for price comparison