This vehicle is a Canadian right hand drive 4 door tourer and is in South Africa. It has been in my family since the late 60's and was a barn find.
My late grandfather gave me this car when I was born, and it has been kept clean and running ever since.
Stories about the car are plenty, but general consensus is that many 1912 parts were used to rebuild it. I would like to know more and hopefully get it back to the way it was.. when shipped to South Africa.
I know that the 13 should have a swept windscreen and be painted, and the acetylene generator should be steel and painted, but there are folks who believe that Canada might not have followed the rules, and perhaps badged 13's with 12 parts. Who knows and has info on Canadian specific cars? You can see my dilemma...
I have attached as many pics as I had time for today, but if anyone can chime in and give their knowledge as to what is right or wrong, I would appreciate it.
I have ordered the encyclopedia CD's and manuals, and they will be a help we never had before, but in the mean time, please let me know your thoughts,
Hartbeespoort South Africa
I also have a '13 RHD touring.
As your windshield seems to fit the top quite well I am not sure that I would change either.
The colour looks OK to me for a Canadian built car (mine is dark blue, but green was also popular).
A fellow in Australia has made very nice front floor mats. If he doesn't chime in I will dig up his contact information.
The master vibrator was the popular solution to the awful Heinz coils and was quite possibly installed when new.
Hello Im in Canada and we have a late 1912 touring based on what I see your engine is an early 1913 as it has a C in the number, our serial number is 6 numbers. Your body is 1913-14, windshield looks more like 1912. Your black and brass lamps would be 1913. Being a Canadian car all 4 tires are 30x 3 1/2 our car has all E+J lamps and lights, and carbide generator all brass. Your coil box has a heize switch which would be 1910 -1912 your master vibrator has the correct 1913 KW switch. I beleive in 1913 the front fender would not have the dips or bills on them. Your diff should be a 12 rivet with a cast iron center. You should look for other 1913 car in your neck of the woods as this my be what your cars there look like.
Thanks Les and Colin,
Les, I'd love to see pics of your car. Colin, I attached a pic of the diff and rear axle setup.
I'm enjoying the input, as i'd like to know once and for all what is right or wrong.
The heinze coil box is probably a spare from the 12 as well, as I am certain I read that the box was changed to metal box in late 13.
My mother has the 1912 sport runabout, and that car has E&J headlights which are black and brass. I am getting them swopped in December as I believe it was on my car. The top two pics were for a function I did, and in an attempt to get the lamps all working, I borrowed the side lamps off the 12. Back to black and brass since then.
The windshield and straps are identical to the 12 arrangement, so I am with you on that.
That would make the top off a 12 T as well or am I wrong? I would imagine the correct top would stop short to just cover the swept windscreen.
On the wheels, I was told that in 13 and up to 15 varnished wood was common. Any thoughts on this? I will paint them if its necessary, but would like to know.
Anyway, thanks for the prompt responses, I appreciate it. Looking forward to the rebuild.
What are the two bosses on the intake manifold?
It's a beautiful T regardless of correct or not
Later rear end. Correct small drum, but center should be flared tubes with 12 rivet attachment to the center pumpkin.
Beautiful car! My personal opinion is, if it runs well and if the way it is presented is the way your grandfather drove it, I wouldn't change a thing, keep it as a tribute to him.
Dear Simon, I am answering your PM.
Hi Simon, that is a really nice car you have, without going to great lengths to get it "correct".
If that is your aim, then it appear to have a later rear spring with the chopped ends.
You mentioned the varnished wheels. To me they look to have square felloes rather than the rounded ones associated with a 13T.
The cast iron Holley carburettor is a later item too. I am not sure when they changed from brass units usually found on 13 models.
While the steel hub fan is a much more serviceable unit, the correct one for a 13 has a brass hub.
None of these changes are necessary to run a good car, but if you find the correct bits at a fair price, they can be changed out as you wish.
Enjoy the car for what it is and enjoy the tinkering you will do to keep it running.
Allan from down under.
Very very nice, I too aggree I wouldnt worry one bit about it. Same story as people making changes to
a current vehicle, (my kid has) and a 100ys from now people will say that computor is wrong or this and
that. In my book this new junk will never make it.
It wouldnt trade my 1985 Lincoln for no amount and at 28 yrs old, I never even added freon to it. Then my first car 'I still got' people say where do you get parts?? simple, It dont need parts.
Hi Les, I'm chimed in Re, a floor mat for him.
Justin --Should you wish a front RHD floor mat for your car just contact me on firstname.lastname@example.org
OT, but nice turnpike cruiser Samuel
Thanks everyone for the comments. First step is the engine rebuild early next year. I will be going for a correct intake manifold and carb. I didn't know about the fan housing, so I will look for that too.
Then, as I see the body, to me its a 13 body. The windscreen in off a 12, and it stand out as incorrect. I will be looking for the right windscreen. That means the top too.
I believe I can get the correct round fellowes on the wheels and will attend to that too.
Not too fazed on the diff at this point, so I will leave that for much later.
The radiator has sprung a leak on a repair that was done in 2000. I have been told to get 45% silver solder non flux rods, and it can be repaired to a brass like finish.
I'm looking forward to doing the rebuild, and the learning curve ahead.
Thanks again all. Bob, the floor mat is on the list!
Ok, had a much closer look at the car. The front fenders are 1915. The 'bill' is welded on. There are 3 rivets, not 4.
The rear has the 4 rivet setup, and as best i can tell are 1913, possibly 14. Anyone know the finer details of the 13 and 14 touring rear fenders? Also there is a support bracket at the base of the fender where it meets the splash apron and running board.
I dont see the bolt hole detail on the pictures I am looking at.
One of the stories I heard was that the front was pieced together with bits and pieces, so this makes sense.
Anyway, fun times ahead!
Samuel, beautiful rare Merc. My parents had a 58, with a 383 CI, 330 HP, Marauder engine. At one point, I outran a cop with it. I ended up with the engine in the sixties, tweaked it a little bit and put it in a 55 Ford. None of the local GM muscle car boys much to their surprise, couldn't touch that car at the time. I still have it it in my "parts" department. Thanks for posting the pic.
It should be easy to fix the top assembly. The front bow can be shortened. Likely that will make it possible for a good upholstery person to modify the existing top fabric to fit without needing any full replacement.
The 1911 - 12 lamps and windshield are good parts that can be sold. The proceeds should easily cover the cost of purchasing proper 1913 parts.
Rear fenders appear to be proper.
I agree, if it were mine I would want to make it into a proper 1913.
Here are some Canadian 1913 photos for reference Justin:
Thanks, I'll have to put the tail light onto the right when I get my body for my RHD chassis.
Terry, it's not quite that simple. The clear lens to the number plate will still be on the wrong side.
You maybe able to unsolder it and do a swap over.
Just for info.
Allan from down under.
I have received so much information on this car, I van hardy believe it. Thank you all.
The VVC that I belong to issued their monthly newsletter today, and there is a veteran run in November that we will be doing.
I'm used to having one of the oldest cars in my old club, the EPVCC, but here, someone has a Model N. I've seen and driven with a Model R in 2008 for the Centenary run, but this will be special. I'll take photos for those interested.
This will be the last run for our T, before we start the tear down. All the 'incorrect' parts will be advertised for those interested. I'm looking forward to it, and I will keep you all posted of the developments.
Thanks for the advice so far, I appreciate it,
On Canadian cars the tail light moves after 1912 from the LH side of the car to the right on the 1913 body. Then of course there is the early and later tail light bracket too. Check out C1561 when found...
Correction: It was a Model S Ford, I believe 1908. Someone correct me?
David, I will take photos of the rear light and bracket for comment.
David - I assume that you are only referring to the RHD Canadian cars when you say that the tail light moved from the LH to the RH side.
Here is the Model S 1908 RHD that was on the Centenary tour in South Africa in 2008.