Would anyone with a 1912 early or late please share pictures?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Would anyone with a 1912 early or late please share pictures?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 02:02 pm:

would anyone with a 1912 early or late please share pictures? I am restoring mine and would like to get some ideas of correctness or creativity with modern. Thank you in advanced. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 02:13 pm:

Let's see some pix of yours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 05:44 pm:

Robert,

Steven Covey often used the phrase, “Begin with the end in mind.” But in this case I’m not quite sure what the “end” is that you are trying to arrive at. I’m a little slow – so others may already understand your goal and will chime in and provide the photos you are desiring and help your reach your goal. If you could clarify what your are really desiring (you may not know – I sometimes do some thinking out loud/while typing and I hope to discover something I like as I go along). For example your statement “…would like to get some ideas of correctness or creativity with modern.” I’m not sure if you asking if we recommend a distributor over the original coils (that is being discussed at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/394057.html?1381653309 and will probably continue to be discussed in the future with some folks feeling one is clearly better than the other but not agreeing on which choice is the better choice. For some of us who cannot decide we can always have one of each.) I know there are a lot of great folks with lots of information and if you can help folks understand what you are looking for I’m sure they can help.

In my case – one of the first questions I wondered is what type of 1912 are you restoring? I.e. they were offered in a variety of styles from the left over 1911 step side, 1911 step side with fore doors added but still using the two piece dash, then with the one piece dash, then flat sided touring body and exposed rear door handles, and finally flat sided touring body without exposed rear door handles. And of course the Delivery Cars were offered, tourings, roadsters, torpedo, runabout, town car and even 19 coupes were offered in 1912.

Bruce’s “Model T Ford” covers the 1912 models on pages 109 to 140 and has numerous early photos as well as photos taken later that show individual items (lights, coil boxes, windshields, etc). Have you reviewed those and do you have any questions about them?

At: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/119926.html 1912 Body styles – serial numbers – car numbers – body numbers – body tags discussed along with a little debate about the serial number ranges. Many photos showing transition from 1911 style to the last 1912 smooth sided no outside rear door handle body style.

At: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/347598.html great discussion about the splash aprons used on 1912 Fords along with many early photos and some later photos of restored cars.

Mid to late 1912 torpedo roadsters
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/69465.html

Early 1912 torpedo converted to tractor two piece dash at: http://www.earlyfordregistry.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=816 Good body details

Smooth sided but two piece dash early photo: http://www.samodelt.com/images/sa-history/sa-history-23.jpg


Great photos of a disassembled and unrestored 1912 smooth sided touring (Fisher Body #54572) at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/384103.html

No photos but good info on 1912 body numbers see:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/200305.html?1301116178

There are also several good Vintage Ford and Model T Times articles on 1912s. Again, I think if you let folks know a little more what your are looking for they can help you achieve it. Or if you just want photos of 1912s as the title says and you do not care about specific areas or body styles – let them know that also. Good luck with your restoration.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Below is a photo from Lance Sorenson:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 06:12 pm:

You guys are great! Your response and PM I received really say a lot about the camaraderie of the Model T men (and woman!)

I asked to see 1912 bodies because I have MTDS (Model T deficiency syndrome - been so long since I had a drivable Model T, I wanted to see what mine will look like when it is done.

Also, as I restore mine - a straight side with door handles outside the rear door. Front doors removable - I was looking to see my finished car thru your car and get an idea if I like your color (black fenders, color body or all one color with pin strip - I am leaning towards black fenders and red or navy (Washington) blue body with cream pin stripe or all red or blue.

I am not a purist, but I want to be correct to some degree or at least have the original part in my garage so I can sell it someday with the original part, i.e. I have a good 12 Heinze coil box but the newer coils don't fit. Decided to buy repo box for the supposedly stronger coils and keep the box for later.

Here are a couple pix when I bougth it, before I took it apart. It already had a great deal restored, i.e. rear, engine,.....
Regards, Bob
\popjpeg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 09:00 pm:

Bob,

Thanks for the clarification. If you have time, please check for a body number, body manufacture letter on your body. Often found on the front seat wooden frame in front of the gas tank. Also some times found on the bottom of the removable Fore dore assemblies. If you find one, please let me know what it is and also the engine number with the last three xxx and the ID patent plate number if you believe the three of those are original to the car. Sometime we know for sure (original bill of sale, known history, and sometime we have evidence it was all together at least since 1950 etc. and sometime we know it was assembled in 1970 etc.).

One easy fix for the I would like to drive a T is to have a temp body if the chassis is good. Drive the car with the temp body (speedster, open express truck, cut off front etc.) while you work on the original body.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Mavins on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 09:50 pm:

Ours is a late 1912 Canadian Car US ser no body by gray E+j lamps kingston coil box and switch,the car was overhauled in 1960. Last month I broke the crank so its all apart now Hope this helps.The rad cap is for fun as well as the 5 horns. Cheers Colin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 10:00 pm:

Bob,
Here are some pictures of slab side 1912's with the outside door handles like yours.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 10:10 pm:

This is a relative of mine in Minnesota:



As you can see, outside door handles might be on forward or rear opening doors.









This is a Canadian car, but the body is made in USA.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 10:18 pm:

Eric Edwards restoration of a US 1912 Slab side body:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 11:46 pm:

Why would Edwards go to all that expense, and yet use a louvered hood?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 05:37 am:

Here is #109657 from Adelaide, Australia owned by Arthur Mullins, now 99. He was in the car only 2 weeks ago on the Australian National Rally.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 05:39 am:

And here is #120062 also from Adelaide.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 07:56 am:

Were louvered bonnets original in OZ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 08:37 am:

Ricks,

For Aruthur Mullins' 1912 #109657 with the 8 louvers in the hood, it was an accessory provided by Duncan & Fraser Ltd. and I believe it was available when the car was sold new.

For the other 1913 with the 6 louvers, I do not know if it is a standard 1915-16 hood fitted to the 1912 or if it was available from the Australian agent. I know David Chantrell will have the complete story for both of those hoods.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 08:52 am:

Bob – thank you for the e-mail.

All – thanks for posting the great 1912 photos!

Royce – There is an interesting magazine I purchased on a trip last month called “Scientific American Mind – 187 Illusions – How they Twist Your Brain” It discussed how what we anticipate seeing influences what we see or perceive.

Your first posting said, “Here are some pictures of slab side 1912's with the outside door handles like yours.” And as I scrolled down I didn’t notice you had started a second posting. When I got to the photo you posted below along with the comment:

As you can see, outside door handles might be on forward or rear opening doors.



I thought I saw my “first ever smooth sided 1912 with the door hinged at the rear photo!”



The illustration above is from the Dec 1911 Ford sales catalog. Bruce comments on page 112 and in his CD, “This is believed to be an artist error, for no such bodies are known to exist.” If anyone does have a photo of a smooth sided 1912 with the rear door hinged at the back – please let us know.


Of course looking closer at the original photo you posted, it clearly shows it is an early 1912 with the carry over 1911 style step side body rather than the smooth side body. But thinking ““Here are some pictures of slab side 1912's with the outside door handles like yours.” I didn’t see the step side until looking closer at the photo.



Also I then I finally noticed the front door driver’s side hinges and 30 x 3 1/2 wheels/tires up front which indicate that car is also a Canadian manufactured car.

You also mentioned that car shown below is a Canadian car with a USA body. If you have time would you please provide additional details on what indicates it is a Canadian car and that it has a USA body? I’m always trying to add a few more clues to my puzzle box.



Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 08:22 pm:

Royce, do you or does anyone know what color red Eric Edwards used on the red touring above? It looks ruby red or red / burgundy on my screen. I might contact him if no one knows. It is gorgeous!

Hap, I will get back to you with some numbers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 12:17 am:

Robert-
My late 1911 (Oct-Nov) equipped with fore-doors was produced during Ford's fiscal year, 1912. Body and fenders are midnight blue. The color I used was a Mercedes color from 1955-1968, color code DB332.






Here is a black 1912 that is near me.






-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 07:16 am:

Hap,

The bottom photo with the baby and the man - The body has every feature of my 1912. If the body was not made in the USA, then Beaudette must have supplied the blueprints to someone across the river in Canuckistan. It has every feature of my 1912 body, but is RH drive.

Alternatively, the car could be British, in which case the body would have been made in USA along with the rest of the car.

Option 3 - is the negative flipped?

The car with the fore doors and step body - I mistakenly thought it was a slab sided car when I posted it. Wheels look like 30 X 3 on the front to me. I think the doors are aftermarket, the cowl lamps appear to be 1911 two tier Browns.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 08:52 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 03:18 pm:

Although, at a glance, it looks like it, I don't think that car (with the man and a baby) is a "right hand drive". The man is sitting near the middle of the front seat and turned slightly left which adds to the illusion. I do not see a brake handle between him and us, nor do I see a horn by the firewall. I do think I see the brake handle sticking up on the other side of the man's leg, which would put it on his left.
Wonderful photos all!
Thank you to everyone that has posted a photo on this thread.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 12:53 am:

The Cigar store car is a step body with flat-top fore-doors. They made 'em for a short time. Here's one that is a Canadian that has a Wm. Gray & Son's body, which is almost identical in construction to Beaudette body.



Although there a variety of aftermarket fore-doors available for earlier 1911 cars, I believe the straight top fore-doors on the Cigar store are factory.

Here is an image out of a Ford manual of a step-side body with straight-top fore-doors.



Yep. They made 'em.

: ^ )

The man with the baby car looks like a regular LHD 1911


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