1912 coil box porcelain does not go all the way thu 1914+ repo coil box

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: 1912 coil box porcelain does not go all the way thu 1914+ repo coil box
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 10:54 am:

The original 1912 coil box porcelain does not go all the way thu the 1914+ repo coil box.

I am using later year coils and a 1914-27 repo coil box. First I had to slightly drill the fire wall holes an eigth of an inch closer together to get the mounting brackets to fit because the 1914-27 box is not as wide as the original 1912.

Then when I mounted the box to the repo 1912 fire wall the porcelain barely goes thu the hole.

Are 1912 porcelains longer? Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 11:38 am:

here are side view pictures





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 11:39 am:

The box is on the fire wall on it's side over the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 12:13 pm:

The 1914 coil box is metal with a metal lid. The box in the picture is wood. Wood was last used for a coil box in 1913.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 01:07 pm:

Even when the correct box is used, the tubes don't go through the dash very far. Both Heinze and Kingston lengthened the tubes by 1/4" fairly early on in 1912; even so, they still don't come through much. If you're used to seeing the later cars with the steel dash, and how those tubes look in the engine compartment, the brass era setup will look a little odd to you.

If yours are the early 1" long tubes, why not just replace them with the later 1-1/4" ones?

Also, I'm curious: why don't you want to use the original coils and box?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 01:40 pm:

Someone forgot that when using a wood coil box with its usual bracket that the coil box mounting holes on pre early 1912 dash boards are counterbored on the people side of the dash so that the spacers on the mounting bolts drop into those counterbores They typically are 5/8" diameter and 5/16 deep. That will allow your coil box to still sit away from the dash by the thickness of the rest of the bracket. YOUR DASH is not counterbored at the coil box mounting holes as I can see it in the picture.

Mid 1912 Dash became reversable (for RHD) by boring the mounting holes to 5/8" all the way through the dash and then using a large washer and nut on the engine side. This was done when they also drilled the carb control hole on both sides of the dash. This was stopped in 1913 when the holes became smaller for the all metal coil box. The dash then was still reversable but the holes were smaller since there was no spacer on the back side of the coil box mounting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 01:43 pm:

BTW of ALL parts are made correctly there is not difference between any coil box mounting so far as I know. If the very early 1909 boxes were on different mounting centers then I am corrected but you can mount any coil box onto any dash for the most part insofar as the mounting centers and insulator centers are concerned. Either your dash was drill off center or the coil box was made incorrectly. Hole centers for 1912 dash are same as 1914-1927. The coil box itself may have moved up or down in various years but the location of its mounting hole and insulator hole pattern remained a constant unit value.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 03:37 pm:

Darel, R.V. and John, thank you for your responses.

Darel, good to know. My 14 had a wood box so I thought they all did. It was also a BITSA car.

R.V., I paid to have four coils rebuilt. The builder nor I realized the later year coils would not fit the 12 box. I was then told that the later coils have a little more (strength or reliability-not sure which)so I opted to put the 12 box in storage and use a repo. I am not a purist but I like having the original for when I sell the car. I was also told the 1912 coils are very expensive to rebuild. Maybe down the road when there is much less to do to rebuild the car I will consider 1912 coils.
Yes, I am used to seeing the porcelain stick out. Good to know they do not have to, but I will buy the longer ones because I like the look.


John, the 1912 box measured 9" wide and the repo measures 8.5" wide. (I am going by memory-I just packed them in the box for storage.) The later coils fit pretty good in the repo but there is too much spacing the original. I do have the 1/8" wood spacer that went between the middle coils but that too was not enough. The mounting brackets were about 1/8 of an inch off when I screwed the original brackets on to the edge of the repo box. Still I have to drill a larger hole as you said to counter sink the space that is butted up against the back of the bracket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 04:49 pm:

Robert:

Sounds like your repro box built to use the later coils was not very well laid our or researched with regard to dimension. Once you counterbore the holes on the people side of the dash to 5/16 deep the white insulators will go 5/16 further through the dash. You might want to check the lid of your wood box to make sure there is a strip in there to hold the coils down into the box since some of those are not there and when you hit a bump the coils will pop up inside and no longer make connection. Make darn sure you don't get that box wet along the back panel because unlike the later boxes you cannot rewood it to get rid of carbon traces that can happen when the wood gets wet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 05:13 pm:

Just to second John's point, I went thru 2 repro wood boxes to simulate the look on my 12. They were designed to hold later coils. Problem with the first was that spacers were used between the coils so that the end coil porcelains would not fit thru the holes in the firewall. I opted for a repro box from a different maker and I couldn't attach the brackets to the box so that the studs would line up with the holes. Having no other alternatives for using later coils, I chose to go with the second box, fill the holes in the firewall for the studs and drill new ones.
Even then, I couldn't use the right brackets for a Kingston box, so I substituted Splitdorf brackets.
Not to mention neither tops had a provision to hold down the coils, so I had to further improvise.
For the life of me I don't understand why someone doesn't take the time to make the dimensions right on these boxes and include something to hold the coils in place. All it would take would be thicker end pieces without spacers and an extra piece of wood in the top scalloped to fit the coils. Jeez, Louise.



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