Tudor without engine number

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Tudor without engine number
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 02:38 am:

I have been working on my US import 1927 tudor getting it ready for inspection and registration. It has a frame number of 1463xxxx but the boss for the engine number above the side water outlet is blank. I need to provide an engine number for the paperwork to work!

What range of numbers would be applicable to the car, given the frame number listed?

Hope you can help guys.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, Mostly in Dearborn on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 03:05 am:

Alan,

You have a replacement engine block which was furnished unstamped. Your frame number and what is stamped on the side of your engine should match. The original mechanic was supposed to do this and obliterate the number on the block he removed.

Tom from Chennai


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 04:23 am:

I don't know how things work down there but if the frame number matches the title/bill of sale. That would be sufficient in the US to register the car. Get a set of stamps the size of the frame number and stamp the frame number on the engine block. If the block was blank, you're not doing anything illegal, at least not here in the US anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 06:16 am:

Allan,

In the US it varies from state to state and often it even depends on which individual you are speaking with at the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) which is where we register our cars. But Dennis' recommendation would work in the states that I am familiar with. I would recommend to attempt to convince them that the number stamped onto the frame is what should be used since the engines tend to be swapped out over the years. I.e. your engine was already swapped out. And in the next 100 years there is a good chance a future owner may change to a different engine. Note at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc25.htm it has:
DEC 12, 1925 Acc. 94. Walter Fishleigh files, Ford Archives
"Motor number was first placed on frame side member R.H. on Dec. 12, 1925. Motor No. 12,861,044. Information obtained from Mr. Burns, Final Assy., Highland Park."


I would also recommend contact the old car club near you and ask how do they recommend you proceed. I.e. who should you speak with where you will register the car. We are very fortunate, one of the workers at our DMV is an old car owner and is very helpful in figuring out how to register the car rather than how to make it as hard as possible to register a car. They use the same guidelines but some folks are just much more reasonable than others.

I would recommend working to find a set of number stamps that are very close to the original size and font before you stamp the engine block. I had a block stamped by the machine shop that rebuilt the un-numbered block. They used an obviously much smaller size of number stamp than Ford originally used. My bad for not checking before they stamped it. It runs great, but for a little bit more time and/or money I could have located a much better match than they chose. Or for that matter they may have had a much closer match if I had only asked them for the correct size. What size would it be? From memory I do not know, but if the number on your frame is the original Ford number then that is the same size and font that you would want the numbers on the engine block to be stamped.

One other consideration -- is the engine block you have a 1926-27 style block with the boss on the back for the transmission to be bolted onto? If so -- I would recommend stamp it with the frame number. If it is an earlier block and if you think you will ever obtain the 1926-27 style engine, then I would suggest you consider not stamping the engine block with a number if they will register it using the frame number. Or if they will not register it unless you stamp the engine block, I would suggest you consider stamping the block with an appropriate serial number for the block. See: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/E.htm#eng2 for details on how to date the block. Then when you swap the engine later you can have the number changed to the new block.

Im sure you will be able to figure out a way, just remember it will probably take a little more time than you would like it to take, but it is for a good cause getting your Ford on the road.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 06:18 am:

Thanks Tom and Dennis. I was not aware that the frame and engine numbers were the same. Bruce's big black book gives the date the engine was manufactured. Presumably the engine number was then stamped on the frame when the engine was installed.

I'll get it done tomorrow and return the number stamps I borrowed.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 09:54 pm:

Before you stamp figure out when the block was cast.
You probably don't want a motor number that precedes the casting date


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 08:56 am:

Whatever Hap says, is correct. Fred has a good point too but only other T owners are going to know what the casting date is.
Rule #1 when dealing with government agencies. Don't volunteer ANY information they don't ask you for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, October 25, 2013 - 09:18 am:

There were no casting dates on US made engine blocks after december 1921. Hopefully your replacement block is of the 26/27 type, so the hogshead can get support from two upper screws into the block :-)


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration