My 1914 T has black gas bowls/fonts on the front and back, the brass chimneys on the front read “E&J Model 32 PATAPOD for Detroit”; the brass chimney on the back reads “E&J Model 12 PATAPOD for Detroit”. I need to replace one or both bowls/fonts on the front because of a few rust holes; however, in my research it would seem that my car may have gas lamps for earlier model Ford cars. Because everything I have found for a 14 T has brass bowls/fonts. Can anyone help me identify the side and rear lamps that are on my car? Can anyone help me with what the correct lamps should look like for my 1914 Touring T?
14 T post letter.docx (135.9 k)
Many folks likely can not view your attachment.
Here is a jpg picture file:
I think your lights are correct, I have seen the Black and Brass E&J lights with the round steel fonts like you have. The model numbers(32& 12) match the 1914 cars. The other makers(Brown, Corcoran, Victor) had the more flat font with the upper part in brass. For sure,don't discard your damaged fonts--they can be repaired. This round E&J font is somewhat difficult to find as it is used on these lights only. The more common all steel later lights15-16 used a smaller font. Hope this helps;maybe someone else will be able to tell exactly the time period these lights were used.
Ford used several brands of lamps in 1914 with E & J being one of the most common. Your fonts as Dennis said are correct, they should not be brass. Here are some period photos of 1914 Model T's with E & J cowl lamps:
First, welcome to the forum! And if you are new to Model Ts which would be my guess based on your question -- but it is only a guess, I would recommend you join one of the local Model T Ford clubs near you – see: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 for chapter listings. Yes, there are two national clubs but many of us are members of both clubs. Both clubs are a great support to our hobby and a great place to meet others with a common interest.
If you are new to Ts several sources can be very helpful to learning more about what is correct on your car. The forum you have already found is a great source. So is the late Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford” available from the club and vendors (see: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/model-t-ford-the -car-that-changed-the-world ) I personally like the CD version as it has been updated and contains additional information in the book as well as several additional books it is available from: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/333725.html?1357665853 A smaller subset of Bruce’s Encyclopedia is available on line at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/intro.htm And under lamps it has some good photos of a few of the 1914 style lamps see: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/I-O.htm#lamps and scroll down to 1914.
Note Bruce on page 165 of his book states, “Side and tail lamps for 1913 and 1914 were all of the oil type and were made by Jno. Brown, Corcoran (in 1913 only), Edmond and Jones (E&J) or Victor. All were iron with brass trim, or the sol called “black and brass” type. A few are shown here but there were a number of variations, especially in 1914 when many had integral mounting brackets.” So there was a lot of variation.
As mentioned above those style E&J lamps would probably be one of several styles offered during 1914 production. Note the later 1914 production switched to lamps that had the bracket built into the lamp.
In the four photos that Royce posted I believe only the top photo has the E&J with the round font/oil bowl as shown on your E&J lamps. Instead they have the more commonly seen bowl with the seam (see the photos on Bruce’s on-line encyclopedia http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sl8.htm ).
There is a E&J tail lamp #12 on e-bay at the moment. I shows the same style rounded oil font at: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271304486430#ht_84wt_885 I do NOT know the seller etc. and I am posting that for reference to the great photos and not as an endorsement (although the lamp looks nice).
Note the Gas lamps were the headlamps and NOT the side lamps. The side lamps used kerosene. The round founts you have most likely can be repaired to be functional i.e. contain kerosene and not leak (never fill them really full – the bumps will cause them to leak. As Dennis mentioned above the fonts could be repaired. Silver solder, brazing, etc. are a few ways that could likely be done. The headlamps used acetylene gas (not gasoline).
Again welcome to the forum – and please let us know if this your first T or if you been working and driving Ts for years.
Hap l9l5 cut off
Wow! Everyone thank you so much for all the very helpful information. My husband has a cousin that is very good at welding many different types of material. He will see if he can fix it but if not we will need to find another font. Does anyone now where I can find them?
I don't know much about 14's, but I spent some time at the Benson Archives last year looking through many old photos, mostly of 15's. I believe Royce's first photo is a publicity pic, likely of a pre-production car. It has a manufacturer's license plate, and some of the people in the car are in other prototype car photos, such as the '15 Coupelet.
I'm only mentioning this because it may be that those round-font lamps were used only on very early '14 production cars. If that's so, it would help explain their rarity. They might be as difficult to find as the early '15 lamps, which were different from most of the year's production and are now very expensive if you can find them at all.
Actually Mike the first photo is a very late 1914, and it is indeed a publicity photo. You can tell it is a late production car because it has billed front fenders and you can barely see the integral stamped steel bracket on the driver side cowl lamp. Other late 1914 model year features are the rolled steel crank handle and the black painted firewall.
Here is a photo of a mid year 1914 with the more typical non - billed fenders used during the majority of 1914 model year. Note that it has the same license plate used on the later model year car in the other photo.
Notice the hood support screws are NOT painted in either of the '14 touring cars in the first and the last photos.
I toldja' I didn't know much about 14's.
Erica, I have a pair of bun type sidelights and a pair of the same style tail light on my 1917 shooting brake. One of the fonts is like the one you have with the seam showing around it. I am one the lookout for a plain replacement to match the other three, and could make my odd one available if you find it too difficult to repair/replace. Let me know if I can help.
Allan from down under.
Notice the manufacturer's plate is the same one. Apparently Ford saved money by buying only one plate and shifting it around. Now they've got hundreds.
Yup, I said that above since I noticed it.
The '15 Coupelet promo pic I have a copy of has plate number 5001M, so they had at least two.