New Winter Project

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: New Winter Project
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 01:04 am:

1915 Roadster barn find, solid no rust out any where new wood kit wheels are solid original 15 engine, tires are good I haven't started it yet but so far everything is looking very promising at this point. I do believe I'll put this back just as Richard E. Did his coupe, I'd like to find some old 1915 upholstery or some good used flour or feed sacks with good color advertisements on them they should make some very interesting interior for the car.

What's it worth guys ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Murray - Anacortes, WA on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 01:14 am:

Priceless !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 09:04 am:

Great find! Please keep us posted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 09:22 am:

Hey Steve! You must be missing that car across the pond.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 09:27 am:

Personally I'm not a big fan of the turtle deck. It always looked like an add-on or after thought to me so a pick-up bed would be in my plans for the car but that's just me. The car's in the +$5000 area in my book. Not sure I'd hokey it up with a weird interior though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 09:58 am:

Please tell us the story of how you made such a wonderful find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 09:58 am:

Is it a "legitimate" 1915, or is it a "put-together" like mine (I think)? That would make a difference in value for a lot of folks. Looking original now is no guarantee of anything. By now a put-together could be sixty years old and look original. The best you can do is check for all the 1915 details, but I don't think we'll ever know for sure on most of these cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lonnie Smith on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 10:37 am:

Not to start any arguments but I prefer the turtle deck over any other style and I am jealous of your find. Congrats.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 11:49 am:

Thanks for the feed back guys, Bob the story is we found this sitting in a garage 5-6 years ago in a small mountain town in Murphy,NC. area, the owner said it wasn't for sale the first time we visited but over the years he came around, I got a call Monday or Tuesday of last week he stated he's ready to sell and I'd better get with it if I wanted it before he changes his mind. So I hooked up the trailer with cash and pocket and headed to the mountains Friday morning.
Michael : you know how it is once you get one... You gotta have another one!
Steve: 100% original no... It has a few dog ear leaf springs, later spark and throttle levers, four rivet front fenders which could indicate two things it's an early 15 or they were swapped out over the years.
Charlie & Lonnie : Truck bed... Turtle Deck... I would have bought it no matter which one it had I like both, Ray Wells gets about $900 for one of the Turtle Decks I can build a truck bed for a couple hundred and have the best of both worlds.
Thanks again guys....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 11:56 am:

That is beautiful. It looks like it is finished to me. It touches a nerve on some folks that a restored car doesn't. Keep it safe and solid and you will have a lot of fun with it.

I used to take these 2 to car shows side by side and loved the difference in reactions to them.




I think there will be more interest in unrestored cars as time goes on. Nice originals are going for big money now and maybe tattered, worn cars will follow. That certainly looks to be authentic and the remaining paint along with the rust is very charming.

So happy you chose to do that.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - Trenton, New Jersey on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 12:21 pm:

I think its going to be to bag of a project for you, Way beyond your means. You should give the car to me and save yourself all the headaches your going to have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lonnie Smith on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 12:52 pm:

I agree with Rich about original cars. I collect tractors mainly and if I get a clean original I believe it's worth more than a restored one. I only restore the ones that need it because they can be restored a dozen times but are only original once. In the end it's all up to the new owners preference. Keep us updated on whatever you decide to do with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 01:12 pm:

Nice try Will.... 7;^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 02:59 pm:

Steve McC,
Yours is much nicer than mine! Congratulations on it. Whether fully restored or rusty-kept, it should be a great and fun model T!



Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 03:09 pm:

"....four rivet front fenders which could indicate two things it's an early 15 or they were swapped out over the years."

Steve, does it have fork mounted headlights? I can't tell from the photos. That can be an indicator of an early '15 to a point. They did that for a bit before switching to the more common design electric light on single mount.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 03:53 pm:

This car looks to be a good solid driver. Did the previous owner tell you how long he owned it and any history he knew about it?
From the looks of it stayed in doors most of the time.
Kinda wonder if the hood was a replacement since its not as rusty (going by the pic on the computer).
Anyway you look at it I wish I would have found it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 04:07 pm:

Beautiful. I wouldn't even wash it off. As Richard said, make it safe as have fun!

Good to see another one saved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 04:51 pm:

Great find, Steve. Make it safe & have fun with all the attention it'll get at shows :-)

Walter - it's possible only the prototypes had fork mounted headlights in the US, while canadian early '15:s certainly were equipped with forks for some time.

John, The paint on the hood may have stayed on better since the hood and most other all metal parts were oven baked, while the wood/metal composite body couldn't be baked after painting. Often the body got dull after only a year while the fenders and hood stayed shiny longer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 07:07 pm:

I'm guessing the paint is better on the front half because the weather and sun hit the rear of the car? Plus the hood appears to be aluminum.
It doesn't have fork mount lights .... But it might before it's over?
Wayne I would like to find another one like yours looks very solid to.
Dan your right No Water in its future unless it gets caught out in the rain.
John I'm thinking it was a western find from many years ago so I can't say for sure...
I should have her running and driving next week, keep your fingers crossed for me, and I'll keep you posted.
Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 07:36 pm:

Forks or no forks? I'd go by the engine date. The encyclopedia says:

During the latter part of 1914 and perhaps early 1915, headlamps were fork-mounted, on the same forks as used by the carbide lamps. Early in 1915 the lamp with the riveted-in-place post became the standard. All were electric, powered by the magneto with the bulbs wired in series. Brass rims discontinued about June 1915.

I read "perhaps early 1915" to mean anytime after January is highly unlikely, and probably anytime after September.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, October 27, 2013 - 07:56 pm:

Even though the '15 model year "officially" began during '14, fabricating the "new" cowl area proved to be quite difficult, so it delayed the introduction of what we know as '15 model cars. The open cars weren't routinely produced until late Jan. or early Feb. of '15. The closed cars began production in Dec. of '14. So "early '15" cars aren't as early as other model years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 03:14 am:

The sedan and couplets for 1915 were in production in September '14. The open cars, touring and runabout continued to be produced in the 1914 style at least through December '14 in all plants and I understand continued to be produced in the 1914 style in some branch plants as late as March '15 (however I do not consider myself to be THE authority). These cars were probably sold as 1915 new cars and depending on state rules may or may not have been titled as such. Ford at that time was able to sell pretty much as much as he could build in spite of a manufacturing delay due to the new style.
Since that time, and especially as they became "antique" automobiles, there has been a desire to claim a car to be earlier, as opposed to newer, so most of the survivors of those thousands of cars built have become 1914s. When I got into this hobby over 40 years ago, you could still often hear about 1914 model Ts with early '15 engines in them. Many of those cars had the engines replaced with earlier engines to "make the car more correct". Kind of sad, really.

Steve McC,
I can wish I had a lot of things. However I am glad that I have my runabout, and can hardly wait to begin to seriously restore it (thank you, Dan). The sheet metal is pretty nice. The wood mostly gone. Someone started a restoration or hot-rod many years ago. Because of that, it is hard to say how original it is. However the original manufacturer's tag was still on the badly dry-rotted wood when I got it and it indicates it to be a mid-'15.
I hope you keep us updated on yours!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 07:41 am:

Ford expected to introduce the 15's at the usual beginning of the model year and advertized them, but actual production was delayed. There were some prototype Sedans and Coupelets built and photographed as early as September of '14, but not production cars. Bruce states in his book that they were produced that early, probably based upon those promotional photos, but later research has shown that not to be the case. Trent Boggess found production info from Ford's archives stating that the '15 closed cars were produced only in December of '14 and Jan. and Feb. of '15. Their production then ceased until the '16 model year, since they were poor sellers and dealers were overstocked with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 08:14 am:

It's a beautiful original car. I think it should be left just as it is.

I suppose I should define what original means to me. To me, it's any car where all the changes (swapping engines, frames, and whatnot) and accessories added were done by the original owner. It's this kind of stuff that gives each T a unique history and story to tell.

Pure, to me, means it is exactly as it left the factory.

However, I would say that there is nothing wrong with doing a full mechanical restoration on it. To me, a car can still be original even if the drive train has been gone through, rebuilt, and is nice and fresh. Plus, that's an added safety factor.

In the end, that T is your baby so it's your call. It's not our place to judge and tell you what to do with it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison_Rice Minnesota on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 10:02 am:

I tend to agree with Cameron. Rebuild the running gear to the point that it's dependable and safe. The sheet metal and upholstery can be redone anytime in the future.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 03:05 pm:

Mike W,
Thanks for the update on research. I may have been playing with these things for 45 years now, but I am still trying to learn more and get more correct. I think I need to get some newer books.

Mike G,
Good to see you here!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 09:55 pm:

Here's a few more pictures of the T the engine casting date 2/9/15 is the storrage area next to the gas tank correct? Pretty handy for a jack and tools.... More to come.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 10:44 pm:

The hood is not rusty because it's probably aluminum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 11:06 pm:

The 16 I have has the storage behind gas tank like yours,nice find!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 11:07 pm:

Steve, you should be able to do a good deal on that 4 ball carburetor on a correct Holley G. The previous owner must have been some sort of a T enthusiast. The dipstick is a convenient touch and is not that intrusive. There's one on my new 27 Tudor, and it's staying!

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 12:20 am:

Mike: your right it is aluminum, not in great shape but matches the car best I can tell all the ware marks match so where ever the hood is worn the spot it's resting on is wore in the same area.
Randall: that's good to know the storage box belongs there I've seen several with out it, so I wasn't sure.... But the age of the wood and the rabbit cuts kinda made me think it was supposed to be there. Thanks
Allan: I bought the car a week or two ago it had no carb on it I bought the 4 ball on eBay 2-3 years ago it was sitting on my book case and just today it found its place on the T...I think I'll try it out if it runs good I may leave it on? I like the dip stick too that's much easier then crawling under the car to check the oil.

I got the carb put on today, took out all the spark plugs cleaned them changed the points on a couple of the coils, installed a NOS - Wards Bakelite timer and roller. I guess next will be an inline fuel filter new fuel line fresh gas, and try to get her started, I sure hope the mag is good... If she fires up we'll move on to greasing everything, adjusting brakes, checking the steering out, and give all the nuts & bolts a once over
I'll keep everyone posted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 07:19 am:

Love the Farm Bureau sign turned engine pan!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 11:10 am:

Andy: Good eye.... That actually is an old rug that's laying under the car, my wife worked at the Tenn Farm Bureau Ins. Co. For 27-1/2 years they built a new office a few years before she retired. The manager was going to leave all 3 of the rugs at the old location, so being a model T person you know how we think, we always see another purpose for everything.... I was thinking my old depot hack and coupe leaks a little oil, and these old rugs have a rubber backing on them. They do a good job keeping oil off the garage floor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 08:50 pm:

Installed my body irons today thanks to Andy Loso!
Also started with a 80/20 mix of Boiled Linseed Oil & flat black
Rubbed it on wiped it back down with rags, soaked the body wood with it as well. It seemed to bring back the old black paint that was left. I hated to lose the barn dirt but it will get dirty again in time, my main goal was to stop the rust process and preserve the tin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 09:12 pm:

Can you explain the linseed oil/paint recipe? I'd like to do the same on my coupelet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 10:03 pm:

Philip
I used approx: 80/20 mix of linseed oil and flat black if you want to speed the dry time add a little mineral spirits to thin it some. But to answer the question on recipe 80% linseed oil and 20% flat black oil based enamel, I mixed mine in a plastic butter bowl painted it on with a 99 cent natural bristle brush.
I wanted to do a oil black wash to inhibit the rust and seal it and to add a tinge of black color just bring out the highlights of what paint that was left on the sheet metal.
Keep in mind it takes linseed oil several days to dry down good. But I like the look, I also have 5 California 466 burlap potato sacks with great graphics on them ready to do the seats with ill post more pictures as we go. Stay tuned.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 10:13 pm:

Linseed oil on a rag will spontaneous combust. Be very careful with the rags and where you put them when you are done. Best to put them outside in a closed container that will not burn. Try not to do business with the fire department, even if they are nice people!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Saturday, November 09, 2013 - 10:53 pm:

Good point Jack... Glad you brought it up!
Best thing to do with the rags is to rinse them with water, put them in a sealed steel paint can it doesn't hurt to put a little water in the can either.... So don't toss the used rags in the corner of your shop floor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By samuel pine on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 08:35 am:

Myself its "Penetral" works on everything from a paint mix to vinal rubbers tires. been doing this for years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 09:31 am:

+1 on the pentrol,spelling might not be correct,buy it at Lowes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 10:40 am:

Randall
The touring looks great....! What is it, 1923-24 ? Love the patina.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 01:38 pm:

Thanks for the information


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 01:46 pm:

Steve its a 1922,but it must be a late 22 because it has slanted windshield.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, November 10, 2013 - 06:50 pm:

Ahhhhh. Another one of Henry's mid year change up's that seems to be more prevelant than once thought, still a nice car. I'd be proud to own it, Randall


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 09:52 pm:

Well I got started on the upholstery this weekend I've asked several people for old ratty original covers to no avail, so this is what I came up with, old tow sacks worked pretty well. Got the seat back installed next will be the seat bottom, not original but I kinda think it matches the old car very we'll love the graphics I'll bet somewhere at some point and time an old farmer has done the same thing with there T... Although 100# flour bags would have been nicer. image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 10:10 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 11:38 pm:

Looking good!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 07:26 am:

I didn't see anyone else ask about it. In one of your pictures of the engine, is that an oil dipstick in the firewall beside the exhaust manifold?

It's a pretty neat spot for one if that's what it is. Could you take a picture and show how the other end is plumbed? Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 09:14 am:

On my ol' rusty '24 Tudor I used a poof can of clear enamel to try to preserve it.
Been a year or so and seems to be working.
One thing nice about a rusty car is it never seems to get dirty!


k


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 10:46 am:

Seth, dipsticks are available from most T parts suppliers.
The tube connects to the pan in place of the lower petcock and works just like a modern car. (End of stick reaches the lower petcock level)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 11:30 am:

I've seen them before Willie, just hadn't seen one placed there. I thought I'd ask about the specifics of it since it's in a cool spot. =)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leonard J Evansic on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 09:37 pm:

I hope I can get some help from this post. Steve- You have a beautiful T and like what you are doing with it.
About 15 years ago, I drug a 15 T runabout out of a shed and started to work on it before I knew exactly what i was doing, and made some mistakes, like throwing away old wood before making new parts.
My problem now is locating the mounting holes for the tail light bracket. My Mel Miller drawings do not locate the 2 mounting bolt holes on the rear sill. Your pictures are the best I've seen of a tail light on a 15 or 16 runabout. Three years of looking for this location on cars at Hershey have come up empty. If that sheet metal on Your rear sill is original, could you give me the location of one of the holes, from the top of the sill down and the left side in.
I've collected some locations, but no two are alike, and I am looking for the real thing. If I could get three that are the same, I'd stop looking.---Len


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 12:04 am:

Will do ASAP... Seth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 12:16 am:

Leonard I'll send you some measurements tomorrow on the location of the bracket. I like the car too...
Over the years we've had the show and shine car's and the nice looking driver's as well but this time I just want something that will be a fun car to use one that you don't have to watch every min. while you have it at a cruse-in or car show, only thing is the sacks I used are pretty clean so I may have to spill some coffee, or tea on them to give more of the used look.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 04:05 pm:

Leonard the first mounting hole from left is 2-5/8 to center and 1-3/4 from bottom of valance... Hope this helps.

Seth here's a photo of the other end of the dip stick
image.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 04:08 pm:

Leonard the first mounting hole from left is 2-5/8 to center and 1-3/4 from bottom of valance... Hope this helps.

Seth here's a photo of the other end of the dip stick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 04:10 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 06:50 pm:

For comparison, here is the bracket on my unrestored '17 roadster.

Note that they are hex nuts, not square nuts, no washers. (I think the same nuts are used for the firewall bolts and the windshield to cowl bracket bolts. I'd have to go out to the garage to verify.)

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 09:40 pm:

Erik
Looks pretty close to the same spot to me...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 07:17 am:

Thanks for the picture Steve!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 07:29 am:

You can tell Steve's car is an original '15 (as opposed to a '16) because it has the four rivet front fender brackets. Those went to three rivets by summer of 1915, about the time of the '16 model year.

Also not the original splash aprons with the hump to clear the brake rods at the rear. The LH apron is typically punched for an acetylene hose in 1915 model year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leonard J Evansic on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 09:56 am:

Thank you very much. I'm sure others will be glad to get this info.--Len


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 03:44 pm:

Your welcome guys .....

Royce is that a typo on "not" the original splash aprons ?
I'm sure you meant "note" these do have the hump to clear the strut rod, I think they are correct. The last 15 we had didn't have them it was very hard to find a set for it.


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