Looking at buying a parts collection. One item is an engine built for touring in a 1909 T. It was made from later parts by master craftsman Ron Brown, Sr. This is not a scab job done with a hack saw and cutting torch. It is a real work of art. One piece pan, square hole trans cover, tappet guides are O-ringed so no leaks, all the best internal parts, etc. Very few T people could tell it from the real thing, but that being said, it is not. Is there any market for something like this? It is the most valuable thing in the collection and I'd like to know if I can move it because I don't want to wind up sitting on this thing as what it will cost. It is ready to bolt in and run, I did the bearings and machine work on it.
Please forgive me for what sounds like it should be in the ad page, but I don't feel right about listing something I don't yet own. I just need to get an idea if I can justify buying it for resale without losing my a##. Also I don't want a reputation for selling counterfeit early parts so full disclosure is a must. Any input is appreciated.
Right now expensive Ts are hard to unload. In better times, $20-25K would seem about right to me. Its worth that now I think but you might have to hang onto it a while. If you wanted a quick sale consider a few thou less. If it were priced under $20K I think you'd move it right along. I am not interested, but that's my take.
Forget the above post, I was referring to the car, not the engine.
I have long considered doing something like that to run in my '10 Touring instead of the original open valve engine in the car now. I do a lot of touring with the car and would use it to swap engines out before long tours. As such I would think there is a market for what you are considering buying as I am sure there are others getting nervous about running a true open valve engine on a regular basis. I never worried about it until I snapped a crankshaft. Fortunately there was no damage to the block but I was just lucky! As far as value is concerned I would expect it is not worth too much more than twice the value of a rebuilt standard later engine. For what it's worth there was a made up open valve engine block at Hershey a couple of years ago that they were asking less than $1,000 for and it didn't sell.
At Bakersfield earlier this year, one of the Chaffins had a block like that. They also were very up-front about it being a modified later block. It also was beautifully done. I don't recall the exact price, but I think it was about 7K for pretty much the block only. Last I heard, it did not sell. Could you build one that nice for someone for that?
I suspect there are more of those running around than owners want to admit to.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
There were new waterpump blocks for sale at Bakersfield some years ago. I believe a fellow in Canada, Hugh McTavish, made them. I don't rightly remember the price although $5000 comes to mind.
Prices of components
Made up one piece pan, $1000
New square hole trans cover, $1000
No Made in USA head, $400
Misc pieces eg, timing gear cover, trans inspection cover, hand crank, pedals, $400
Rebuilt motor any year $2000
Total before considering the block itself, $4800
If $5000 is what the block is worth, then total components would be valued close to $10,000. I just can't see someone paying that much though.
If it were mine and I could get $7500 for it, I'd sell it.
You think that an entire 1909 should bring under 20 thousand? That cant be right, thankfully..
I believe we're talking a "made up" open valve engine. Much different from an original (my opinion).
On a side note, there were only 309 Model Ts built before Jan 1 1909. Fortunately, 420 of them have been preserved
Rob, Love your "fuzzy math". It's kinda like how many 1915's there are built around a surviving 1915 hood former
Yes, Rob, I misread the original post when I said the car was worth $20-25K. I thought that the whole car was made up of later modified parts. Can't figure out how I got that from the post, but I did.
Re genuine early blocks, I know of one post water pump 09 block that sold for $8K. It was an early to mid year number as I recall. I've seen 10 blocks for sale for more but I don't believe they sold. Genuine open valve blocks command a lot of money.
what would it cost to buy the parts to make a open valve touring at todays prices!!!!!!!!!!!!charley
Thanks guys for the input. The numbers suggested on the engine are about what I was thinking. With vendors getting about $3200 for a complete eng/trans rebuild on your core, I think something over twice that would be bargain basement money for this thing. To build one with all genuine parts would cost easily $15K or more. The last original open valve block I have worked on was bought for $6K and it was a 1910 in need of a lot of work.
As far as as what a built up 1909 would bring, I assisted Ron with the sale of his car. It had an engine identical to this one. The front and rear axles were genuine 1909 parts. Most of the rest of the car was made by Ron or new parts vendors. It was a real nice tour ready car and found a new home at above $30K.
It was an honor to know Ron and to share his passion for model T's. When he asked for my help in his later years with his projects I felt like Van Gogh asked for my help with his art. With all of his accomplishments, Ron told me one of the proudest moments of his life was receiving the Rosenthal award. His contribution to our hobby continues to serve us all well.