I recently rebuilt my 1915 motor and found chunks of rust falling out of the water jacket. I have always used antifreeze that is supposed to prevent/control rust. A friend suggested adding Soluble Oil to eliminate further rusting in the cooling system of the block and head. Does anyone know about using that oil, and if so how-what dilution in antifreeze, etc. Also any other ideas will be most welcomed to stop further rusting. Thanks.
The water soluble oil is fine. I've been using it for years. Sorry to hear of all the rust coming from within your block.
How much do you add to the cooling system Larry? I appreciate your quick response.
Anti freeze needs to be replaced every so often to maintain its corrosion protection. Also, if you live somewhere that has winter temperatures that go below freezing you need anti freeze to prevent the radiator and block from being ruined during a freeze.
Where do you find Soluble oil? I have heard of it but not looked for it a the Auto Stores. Is there a chance that Oreilly's would have it?
You likely can find Zerex Super Protector at the auto parts place.
Also cutting oil is water soluble and any place that carries machine shop type supplies should have it.
Zerex Super Protector is NOT an antifreeze nor is it a soluble oil. It's simply an antirust additive. And it will pretty much kill anything that comes in contact with it. If you breath the steam vapors, you'll likely have breathing problems the rest of your life. This is meant to be used in a SEALED system!
As you live in Oregon, which does get winter weather, your best bet is ordinary anti-freeze. I mix the stuff with distilled water to around 50:50 and here on Long Island, where winter temps can dip below 20-degrees, that works out just fine.
Now, water, of course, corrodes ferrous metals and distilled water is reputed to be worse than tap water in that regard, but distilled water doesn't contain the lime and other dissolvable solids that will joyously crud up your cooling system. Mixed with antifreeze, distilled water isn't a corrosion problem.
Yes, anti-freeze does need to be renewed, but a Model T radiator only holds somewhere between two and three gallons, so it's not horribly expensive ($12.59 per gallon of Prestone at Target).
I used a cup of soluble oil added to the water. It must be a year since I put it in. Brown water is a thing of the past since I started using it. I believe it's used with metal cutting tools like lathes and milling machines.
Soluble oil can be bought at any parts store that will get it for you.
My NAPA store has it on the shelf.
It can also be bought at bearing houses.
The instructions say to add 2 oz. per gallon.
I always use about a half quart in any car.
It mixes just fine with anti-freeze.
Because it does not freeze where I live I just use it straight with water.
As cheap as it is you can not afford to overlook soluble oil in your coolant.
Oh, and another thing, use the straight old fashioned anti-freeze in all your old cars. Don't pay four dollars a gallon for the water that is in the 50-50 mix.
And CHANGE THE DAMN STUFF EVERY TWO YEARS!!!.
There is more to antifreeze than just rust and freeze protection. It also raises the boiling point. 50/50 mix takes the boiling point in a non-pressurized system from 212 with just water to 226. That can be big when pulling a long grade in summer time heat.
Yes Dave, but straight water carries the heat away better than anti-freeze.
Here is a recent thread about the advantages and disadvantages of adding more antifreeze.
More is not always better.
A cup of water soluble oil is plenty. It can be purchased at machine tool supplies, but I'll be McMaster Carr has it.
Aaron: I believe you are correct right up to the time the water starts boiling. Then all those air bulbs act like an insulator. My point was to prevent the boiling to begin with.
Also, if you are boiling, your are loosing the very coolant you need to keep the engine cool. That happens much sooner with water.
I don't know if I agree with you. Those little "bubbles" are not air but steam and steam is an efficient way to transfer heat. It takes many many times more heat energy to change water to steam at 212 then it does to raise it from 211 to 212 degrees. Also an engine will run much cooler on water then a 50/50 mix and may not get to boiling as fast as a 50/50 mix. I'd rather boil out water then antifreeze.
Antifreeze will raise the boiling point but lower the ability to transfer heat and increase the viscosity that will also reduce the flow and reduce the amount of heat transferred. Someone should do some test on the real effect on a thermosiphon system. My bet is on using the least amount of antifreeze mix is better.
I think that 226 boiling point is with a 16 lb cap, which makes most of the gain.
Has anybody else noticed the rapid price increase for auto fluids such as oil, anti-freeze and sealants? I get sticker shock every time.
I paid ten bucks for a six ounce bottle of soluble oil recently, and later thought I might have got by cheaper with anti-freeze.
Thanks for the information to all of you who responded. I will follow the advice given, and will put the soluble oil in all of my Model T's in the next week or so. Also I am going to change the antifreeze in all of the vehicles.
Incidentally I did purchase a bottle of it at the local NAPA store, but when I asked for it as Soluble Oil they could not find it in their catalog. It turns out that NAPA calls it Soluble Cutting and Grinding Oil in case anyone ends up having trouble finding it in one of the parts stores. It took the store clerk about 10 minutes to find what I was asking for.
Something like that is sold by McMasters:
Cutting and Tapping Fluids and Compounds
Use full strength while machining for easier and faster tapping, drilling, and milling. These fluids also improve surface finishes, extend tool life, and help you meet closer tolerances. These products are compliant under all state VOC rules in effect on October 1, 2010. Water-based fluids are for use on all metals except magnesium.
Size Pkg. Qty. Partial
Pkg. Full Pkg.
4-oz. Container 24 10705K48 $4.07 $3.64
16-oz. Container 12 10705K49 9.53 8.54
1-gal. Container 4 10705K54 26.86 24.06
5-gal. Container 1 10705K55 __ 104.16
I don't need 5 gallons but over the years I will probably get through twelve 16oz containers.
I tried to format the listing but all the spaces are removed by the MTFCA site, so it is rather jumbled, sorry.
dad always used a water pump lub. it looks like milk. pour it in the rad.
Yanmar still make diesel engines with thermosyphon cooling. They state that no more than 25% antifreeze should be used otherwise the system doesn't work properly.
Here's what wiki says, Nigel:
A Yanmar 2GM20 marine diesel engine, installed in a sailboat. The center pulley is the crankshaft, the lower left one the seawater pump, the upper right one the alternator.
Yanmar 2GM20 seawater pump. Cooling seawater enters from the tube on the left.The 2GM20 series uses either a direct seawater cooling system, or an indirect freshwater cooling system (specified by the suffix letter F i.e. 2GM20F). Seawater is pumped into the engine through a seawater pump (impeller type). In the engines equipped with a direct seawater cooling system, seawater is used to cool the internals of the engine directly. The engines equipped with a freshwater cooling system have an additional heat exchanger, where heat transfer occurs between the seawater and internal freshwater.
The impeller of the seawater pump can suffer from wear and tear, especially when run dry for some period of time, in which case it has to be replaced to avoid loss in the flow of cooling seawater, a potential source of engine overheating.
A particularly difficult problem in Spanish and Portuguese waters is jellyfish. Their tentacles can be sucked into water intakes. In extremis it is possible for the rubber exhaust hose to catch fire, the plastic silencer to melt and the head-gasket to fail. In colder British waters boats are far less likely to meet such problems. The solution is to have a large basket-type water strainer and overheat alarms (standard on most Yanmar engines)
The seawater pump is rotated by a short belt linked to the crankshaft.
Interesting, I had not heard of the Yanmar thermosyphon mix requirement before but it makes sense to follow the recommendation for T's too.
This is from a dealer that hears the same story many times:
"If you have a YM135, YM155, YM165, YM1100, YM1300, YM1500, YM1600, or YM1700 be sure that you are using NO MORE than a % 25% antifreeze mixture. These models use a very effective ThermoSiphon system and do not have a water pump. They use the natural tendency of hot water to rise to circulate the water. Too much antifreeze will not circulate correctly. It sounds funny but Please Believe Us.... We get at least 2 or 3 of these calls per day! Dilute your mixture to 25% or less if your tractor does not have a water pump."
It also follows that if you use a water pump that really moves water then a 50/50 mix of antifreeze should work okay. The simple solution is no water pump and used the the lower concentration of antifreeze.
Jim, thank you very much for expending what I said. Much appreciated.
At least we don't have the jellyfish problem.
If jellyfish are getting sucked into your T, you probably have bigger issues to worry about!