Hi all. 1st I want to thank "Hap" Harold Tucker for sending me the article on rewooding article by R.V. Anderson. As far as I can tell I have Low Cowl, metal firewall 1923 Runabout all orginal with "farmer" modifications.
He welded some pipe at the top of the body panels and then some brackets to it.
I have a couple of questions about some brackets.
Here is the other picture
The questions are, what are the brackets and what are they used for. Also where can find some 'new' ones since the farmer cut and welded them.
Sorry for the triple posts.
Those are top saddle brackets. The top rests on those brackets when it is in the down/folded position.
There is a straight rod that screws into the body bracket. There is no welding involved. If they are lost, sometimes people substitute short pieces of pipe.
What is the serial number of your motor?
Note that all 1923 model year Fords have low cowls and radiators. 1923 tourings and roadsters also have slant windshields, not the straight windshield shown in your photo.
Here are the top saddle arms available from the vendors:
When the cars came from the factory, rubber plugs were in the holes. If you wanted to lower the top, you removed the plugs and screwed in the top saddle arms.
That's just the saddle arms. You'll also need these. The first is the saddle itself and the second is the saddle straps.
I have all these parts in original condition if you are interested email me at email@example.com
Thanks for the info guys. I have looked and looked for the answers. Ran across this forum and bingo. Questions answered.
Again Thanks a lot.
I'll post the engine number ASAP.
As Erik pointed out, your car doesn't look like a '23. It's very common for these cars to be registered with the wrong year. The serial number will tell you when the engine was made. But it may or may not be the engine that came with the car. All sorts of forgotten changes and modifications could have been made in the last ninety years. Several good photos of the car from various angles should soon get you a diagnosis of what it really is.
Looks like a 23-25 turtledeck. Also your closeup of the seat looks '23. I'd say early windshield on a '23 body.
Looks like a late 1919-1922 to me ?
Judging from no cowl lights leads me to think it is an elec. start car. At any rate the old original cars are still coming out of the wood work, and even some of the 50 year old restored cars are starting to resurface. That's good and bad that means someone that loved the car as most likely gone, but the brighter side is someone else that loves them get's to revive an old T. again.
The trunk looks like 1923-25 to me too, however the photo is fuzzy. I'd like to see a clearer shot of the trunk and see if there is a higher bead on the back of the body/tub.
The screw in/through the body top saddle arms were introduced in 1921 model year according to Bruce's encyclopedia.
"I'd say early windshield on a '23 body."
It seems plausible that some cars could have left one of the assembly plants that way early in the '23 model year, if they happened to have a few early-style windshields on hand and wanted to use them up.
Or maybe it was one of those "farmer modifications."
If your top saddle irons come through the sheet metal like a touring car does, you have a 1922. Refer to the white car above.
Here are some pics of the car. According to Calif DMV the VIN is 3492845, Yr 1st sold 1923. The distance from the bottom of the Seat Back Panel to the bottom of the molding rail is 17 inches. The wood kit from Fordwwood that is the best fit according to their drawings is the 23 - 25. Their item number 303, straight wood from the cowl to the firewall is the same as mine. In the WHITE picture, the metal rail is the same and the wood sticks up above the rear seat panel.
If the VIN you supplied is the actual serial number on the engine block, then at least the block is from October 1919.
Check the serial number above the water inlet on the engine block.
After seeing the rest of the car, I agree it has a 1923 body - high trunk, corresponding bead in the rear of the seat tub, low cowl, low radiator. It should have a slant windshield and a one-man top.
Nope, Ruckstell Axle. Engine number above the water outlet on drivers side 12831834. The person I bought from said they used to race it at the county fairgrounds in Chowchilla CA. Maybe that is why the engine number is so early.
No Top came with the car.
It has an electric starter, with the start button up against the seat frame. If it was in a newer car, I would say it looks like a dimmer switch.
Kevin -- That engine was assembled on Dec. 2nd, 1925, so it's a 1926 engine.
Your starter button arrangement is typical of all the starter/generator T's.
Thanks to everybody for all the info and help.
Mike, maybe they blew-up the engine racing and had to put a different one it. Who knows for sure. The "T" was registered in 1976 and that is where I got the VIN number.
Apparently a replacement engine. That serial number dates it to Wednesday, December 2, 1925. If that VIN on the pink slip is a previous engine number, that would have been a replacement too. A 1923 serial number would be around six million to eight million.
Your description of the starter switch and location sounds standard from 1919 onward.
Here's a picture of a 1923 low cowl runabout from the MTFCA encyclopedia, showing the slant windshield and "one-man" top:
The "white" one is not far from you.
white '23 roadster
You may have an extremely early '23 model, made in '22, but then again it is possible the windshield may have been changed. I haven't seen an early '23 with a straight windshield, but from the photos you posted, it is definitely an early '23. It doesn't appear the dashboard has the steering column support bracket, which also makes it an early '23.
The more I think about it, I'm going to go with my first post, and say it's a '22. Why would someone have changed the windshield?
Late 22 early 23 are some of the hardest model Ts to date. So much overlapping changes. One thing not mentioned is the curved ends on the dash. When did they stop the straight bottom dash.? I used to have a low steel firewall late 22 touring. At that time the low steel firewall was still being argued as to if it was Ford equipped or all low steel firewalls were aftermarket. I do not know for sure if that was ever laid to rest or not. I have seen to many low steel firewalls to believe they were all aftermarket, but that is my opinion. There is also a difference in the seat frames/kick panel The earlier one is a straight piece where it meets the door post area. The later one has rounded corners. Not sure when that change was made. Another point to check is the wood around the top of body. When was the change made from the small aprox 3/4 X 3/4 inch tack strip to the larger tack strip made of larger pieces of wood made in sections. Its been a long time since I researched all of the items on my late 22 car so I can not give dates of change from memory. From what I remember, the windshield could have been the early style on very late 22s with the new style 23 bodies and low firewall. Then sometime in early 23 they changed to the high style cowl/firewall as a running change. Its been awhile so I stand to be corrected on some of this, but these are the items I remember that make up most of the changeover from low to high radiator cars. Nice car and it deserves a good investigation to determine what you have. The late 22s/early 23s are like the 15/16 Ts and sometimes treated like stepchildren