Help please with assembly of rear wheel assembly

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Help please with assembly of rear wheel assembly
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 09:13 am:

Well after being laid up for 7 months, I am really trying to get a 1926 Ford up and running before Winter hits here. The car had a modern wheel assembly half-ass## bolted to the rear emergency brake hub. I am assembling a new 21 inch wheel assembly for the car and have run into a small problem. The long rear hub bolts I bought from Snyders are too short to go through the assembly. It is probably an error on my part, as the bolts have the square tops but the front backing plate has round holes. So obviously the rear wheel hub is incorrect or I have the wrong bolts. Please see the pictures and comment. I really want to do this correctly

showing hub without square holes for bolts
showing hub without square holes for bolts

obviously a square peg will not fit into a round hole
obviously a square peg will not fit into a round hole

therefore can not mount rear brake drum
therefore can not mount rear brake drum


(Message edited by admin on November 05, 2013)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Redelman on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 09:45 am:

Dave the hub comes in the wheel from the other side, so the threads are basically the only part of the hub sticking out of the wood until you put the outer flange on the hub which captivates the wood spokes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Redelman on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 09:57 am:

I should have added that the hub bolts go on through the outer flange,wood spokes,the hub,and then the brake drum. If you have any questions just PM me and I'll talk you through the assembly over the phone. Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:06 am:

Other than being backward and having parts missing, it's fine.

Look carefully at your last picture. See the faint circle around the outside of the bolts? That's from the hub flange. The hub should go in that hole with the flange against the wood.


The outside of the wheel should have a round plate that fits around the hub like this. It has square holes for the bolts.


I've never had wood wheels on an improved car, but I assume the brake drum should be bolted on the inside like this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:07 am:

Dave the hub is up side down. It should go through your spokes assembly.
In attachment a few photos how it should be done.

Andre
Belgium














(Message edited by admin on November 05, 2013)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:10 am:

Thanks Steve, what a great quote I am sitting here chuckling at myself

"Other than being backward and having parts missing, it's fine." I am going outside take it apart again and looking at your pictures


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM WILSON, AMORY, MS on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:37 am:

Andre

Does your wife know what you're doing on the dinning room table?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:39 am:

Ok it appears that the black hub assembly is picture two may not be the correct part. It will not go through the wooden wheel assembly from the inside, going towards the outside. Does it need to be forced? Also it seems from the comments I am missing the face plate that fits on the Outside of the wheel connecting the assembly wheel to the brake drum by bolt compression. Am I on the right thought process/ Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 11:10 am:

Jim,

Yes my wife know I did it on the dining table. Why not?? All the parts are clean and dry and it is my dinning table too.
I just finished the assembly of magneto coil ring.
Should like to set a smiley now but I don't know how.

Andre
Belgium

(Message edited by admin on November 05, 2013)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 11:23 am:

Clean the paint off the hub and spokes in the hole and it may go in with a little help from a piece of wood and a mallet carefully so as not to loosen the spokes.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 11:25 am:

The beveled edge of the wood spokes goes toward the hub. The hub goes through the hole in the center of the spokes. The spokes should be tight and they are placed upward like a tent as shown in Andre's picture. They are then pressed down There is a ring with square holes which goes on the outside of the wheel after the spokes are pressed into place.

I know that there are many members of the club in Indiana and it might be of great help to you if you contact one of them and find out who in the area is familiar with wood wheels and let him demonstrate to you how it is done or help you assemble your wheels. The picture you have posted looks as though your spokes are in good condition. Some experienced help will get the job done correctly and without ruining any parts and also help you make the car safe to drive.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 11:44 am:

Here's a video showing the press Andre used. Be sure you read the note giving corrections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKZ7WrfHdf8


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 12:55 pm:

I am always amazed when I see men who had a white collar job now doing things like Steve putting a wooden wheel together.
It must be a matter of making/doing in their blood.
I have seen Lawyers that could not check the oil on their model A. They could get their fingers dirty or make a mistake.
Then after they retire they pull the transmission out of the model A and want me to watch while THEY overhaul it.
Or the retired dentist who gets a kick out of removing the floorboards of his '26 Chrysler roadster and painting them, even cutting out a new one.
Or the car dealer who grew up at his father's big dealership and never touched anything more than a dipstick until he retired.
Now I gotta watch while HE cleans the piston ring grooves, scrapes the gasket material off and changes the hoses, pulls the brake drums, etc.
Did you see the contentment on Steve's face as he put that wheel together with that This Is The Way It's Done look on his face.
It's as if they've been saving up all their lives to do high-tec manual labor things.
I, on the other hand, would just change the car over to wire wheels and forget about the wooden ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 02:36 pm:

Here. Drew you a picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 02:56 pm:

Be careful taking the hub back out. Support the spokes as near to the hub as you can because the spokes will try to pinch the hub on it's way our and some of the spokes may split a bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 03:11 pm:

I would also number the spokes - just in case the whole thing comes apart.

Listen to me giving advice! Lol.

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 03:39 pm:

Aaron, that's why we have books, schools, and forums. If there's something you want to learn how to do, you can find out. I was on the planet for more than half a century before I ever picked up a welding torch, so I went to the local juco and took a class. I'm certainly not a real welder, and my work looks it, but it sure does come in handy. I suppose there's a certain amount of natural aptitude involved in learning this stuff, but I think it's mostly interest and effort.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 04:30 pm:

You gave me a good laugh, Aaron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 06:50 pm:

Bob's pic (above) is good, but, the top line from the word "hub" is actually pointing at the plate (which will have square holes).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 06:54 pm:

On that diagram posted by Bob Coiro, it shows a separate drum for Rocky Mountain Brake. That is true of the earlier Model T's. On the 26, you use the original Ford large Brake drum for Rocky Mountain brakes. Other than this change, follow Bob's diagram.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 07:06 pm:

Bob Thanks for the great picture. Like I said, I sometimes have to laugh at myself and the assumptions (false) on how something was put together! A real nice model T expert is going to help me put it together correctly tomorrow plus I get to see his car !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 03:32 am:

As you already have the spokes tight in the wheel and in place you need to put the hub in from the back and use a press to force it through.

Yes it will be tight but if you support the spokes close to the ends in the center and then press the hub through the hole you will have a tight fitted set of spokes. Cleaning off the paint in on the spoke ends would be good.

When I purchased wood felloe wheels for my car they came without the hubs just the hole in the center like you have

I used a large hollow pipe big enough to clear the hub but close to the ends of the spokes, all four hubs went in once pressure was applied.

Use three bolts around to line up the hub with the holes you already have. Normally the holes would be drilled after you press the spokes and hub in as in Andre's photo's.

You need to get the holes to line up and not have to have to run a drill through the hub holes again and risk the bolts being loose in the holes if you can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 04:15 am:

David,
As your spokes are in place, you can push the hub in place with a press.
The hub should go from the back side (your third photos) through the hole.

Pay attention to line up the bolt holes (this can be done by using longer wood bolts and push them through the bolt holes in the hub and the spokes).
The main hole should be a little smaller (3 mm) as the hub diameter.

As Peter said you need to support the spokes assembly very close to the ends of the spokes. A large hollow pipe together with the outer hub disk should do the job very well.
Before trying to push it all together put a lot of WAX (no grease) on the spokes and the hub.

Good luck

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 02:10 pm:

Please send me an e-mail, David !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 09:01 am:

Thanks to everyone for their help, especially Steve who took his time and tools to show me how to do it properly without damaging the wooden wheel. Today the car will have 4 wheels on it in how many years and hopefully running in another month Boy does it look different from my first Post! wheel done correctly


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, November 07, 2013 - 08:58 pm:

Good job!


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